It's possible that what we see are not actually "The Titans" Per se, what if they have no bodies and simply construct a form out of the most powerfull elemental substance available in the area.Originally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
Indeed I just hadn't formalised the sentence "The World that contains Tyria" at the time :)Originally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
Nice idea, but I'm not sure it really follows, why couldn't have the Eidolons have traveled in the same manner as the Mursaat (or the Seers for that matter) I'm thinking of some kind of portal, but it's all speculativeOriginally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
Hmm maybe I need to do the last few fire island missions again, see how the descriptions of the Door of Komalie are worded specifically.Originally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
After all the Titans seem to organise themselves with the Char quite nicely even after the Lich is dead and the Sceptre is back in safe hands.
Perhaps that's just legacy commands, but maybe not, after all, if the Titans are "spiritual" in nature then that would explain a perceived lack of culture.
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18-01-2006, 18:46 #81
Last edited by SilentMobius; 18-01-2006 at 18:53.
18-01-2006, 18:51 #82
I utterly admire you're work. It's like o.O, why would you spend so much time though :/.. But I really like how you translated the runes and stuff.. You're like the people who find murderers o.O.
Haha so true. I'd be willing to say that Eratimus is Guildwars official archeaologist/paleontologist/CSI
18-01-2006, 19:18 #83Originally Posted by twigler
I'll toss in a bunch of my ideas after I get some sleep.
18-01-2006, 20:17 #84
I wish I could forget those cinematis. I still hear the SeerOriginally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
"Yeld! Yeld to the Scepter of Orr!"
And when the Titan stops, the Lich continues:
"It worked! Just as the profecies said, it worked!"
So, by that scene, I understand that by opening the Door of Komalie the players released the Titans - and then the Lich used the Scepter of Orr to take control over them (right before one would have eaten him) and use them as his army.
Then we have the small detail that the Titans didn't stop after the Door was closed and the Lich was defeated - see the "Save X" quests, and the last of them, "The Titans' Source" (that I admit I have never been able to finish ).
18-01-2006, 20:26 #85See, no - what happens there is that the Titans rise, one advance to the Lich, and then he raises the staff and speaks:
18-01-2006, 20:29 #86
Duh, right, I forgot that oneOriginally Posted by Rob Van Der Sloot
I still think he was doing that just because the Titans had already been released and then placed under his control, but anyway...
18-01-2006, 20:32 #87
Well I can't be 100% sure either of course, it's all just speculation. But I think we've already come a long way with seperating the facts from wild guesses.
I love the idea that the Mursaat might actually be good, instead of evil. Especially cause it kind of makes sense reading the arguments made in previous posts.
18-01-2006, 20:39 #88
Originally Posted by Isaiah
I suspect that, somewhere far down the storyline, we will discover that Grenth, Dwayna, et al are not actually gods, but rather another higher class of beings masquerading as gods. Probably something as far above mursaat as mursaat are above humans, but not actually gods. This would explain, among other things, Grenth's inability to control the underworld (some god of death he is), Baalthazar's near inability to control the Fissure of Woe, the abandonment of Tyria by the gods, and the eventual failure of their "bloodstone containment plan." I think we can eventually expect to see (& fight) whatever has been distracting the "gods" from tending to Tyria and the underworld.
Regarding the charr, I think two things are pretty clear: 1) they have worshipped the titans from a time when the titans were free, and 2) they did not cause the searing all by themselves. If you watch enough cutscenes with the charr, it becomes pretty obvious that they just aren't that bright. Two things are also very unclear: 1) What's the effigy of the mursaat doing there too? So far Erasculio's explanation makes the most sense to me. 2) Who taught the charr how to perform the searing? To list the possibilities, there appear to be five parties with the kind of magical knowledge to teach such a powerful spell. a) The titans. Although the titans are locked away, as mentioned elsewhere, perhaps they left a relic or two which allows their followers to tap into their powers. b)The mursaat. A possible motive would be to wipe out human chosen, especially those in distant Ascalon, so as to prevent their destruction according to the prophecy. A problem with the "mursaat did it" theory is that the charr worship the titans and seem aware that the mursaat are enemies of their gods. Even if the charr are in the dark about that, it seems risky for the mursaat to teach the charr any such tricks in case the charr do figure things out. c) The vizier. Perhaps he shared a forbidden spell with the charr to kick the ascalonian chosen into motion, so that he could manipulate them into fufilling the prophecy. The probelm with this theory is that it requires the vizier to have been both evil and planning the events of the game, including his transformation, since long before the cataclysm. d) the GLint/seers/forgotten axis. Not enough is known about any of these to suggest a motive. They're just on the list as a party with the capacity to teach the charr powerful magic. e) Some as-of-yet unknown critters we'll meet in a future chapter.
One last note on ther char: all of the bosses present at the searing altar in pre-searing appear during the ascalon missions as bosses. They do not go south to Orr.
Regarding the forgotten, they are well explained in the manual and in-game. They were the first sentient race created by the Grenth, Dwayna, et al gods. With the coming of humans, they retreated into the desert and became its self-appointed guardians. Since the gods' departure, they have followed Glint. I question whether these "first ones" were intended to be somewhat angel-like, which would mean indiscriminantly killing them might be foolish on our part.
Regarding the seers, it's clear from the iron mines mission's cutscene that the seers are on good terms with, if not allies or followers of, Glint. It's also clear that they are enemies of the mursaat. Also, given the bonus of hell's precipice, I'd wager that they are not friendly with the titans. (Although that could be because the titans were under lich control at the time of the bonus.) Everything beyond that is speculation right now. I suspect we'll be seeing a lot of them in future chapters.
Regarding Glint, there are more questions than answers. We know that she really is a prophet, since some of her substantial and unlikely predictions came true. But we do not know the entirety of her prophecy. We know various other characters are aware of the prophecies. But we do not know what she told to whom, if it was true, or why she told them. The most puzzling thing about Glint (IMO) is: why doesn't she hold a grudge? We killed her after all. But Vision of Glint seems perfectly happy to tell us where we can find an escape boat in a hurry and warn us about impending titan attacks. If someone killed me, helping them out of dire situations would not be high on my list of things to do as a ghost. The only explanation I can come up with is that our battle with Glint was staged, and we really didn't kill her, at least not in any permanent way. (Perhaps it was just another facet we defeated. Perhaps dragons are periodically reborn, pheonix-style. Etc.) It is "VISION of Glint," not "GHOST of Glint" after all. I expect we'll see that darned dragon again in the future.
Regarding the titans, I would hazard a guess that: whoever made the scepter, made the titans. Since it is "THE scepter of ORR," I'd guess that it was once owned by the Grenth/Dwayna/et al gods when they lived in the capital city of Orr. Whether they created it, or "liberated" it from the old gods (including the previous underworld god mentioned in an earlier post) I can't really guess.
Regarding the mursaat, Erasculio's explanation of their motive's seems more or less plausible to me. However, I think that their choice of means in sacrificing the chosen and pretending to be gods puts them a little closer to evil than to misguided, even if their motives weren't so terrible.
18-01-2006, 22:08 #89
A few observations:
1. There has probably been an ancient struggle going on for thousands of years. If the Seer race and the Mursaat were the major players, it would make sense that the Seers created the titans as a "doomsday weapon". I suspect both races originated from some other plane or world (exiled?), or are so utterly ancient that they may as well be from a different world.
2. These races have probably been using the lesser races as pawns for some time now. The Charr were obviously involved, maybe others.
3. *complete speculation* Were the old gods a 3rd faction in this conflict? Did they create the humans, specifically the choosen, as a long-term weapon to defeat the intruding Mursaat and the Seer's (mostly) out-of-control weapons?
4. It seems that all the players in modern Tyria are more "ruthless" than good or evil. They all understand some piece of the flameseeker prophesy but not the whole thing. The Mursaat saw in them the release of the Titans but not their permanent(?) entrapment. The Visor saw an opportunity to seize power - I think he was an opportunist, not an "ancient being". Maybe Glint has been a trusted prophet for eons and played a trick on everybody by not telling the prophesy in whole.
5. The ancient Ascalons may have had a larger role to play in events that it first appears. Have you ever been to the tomb room in the catecombs below ashford abby? Did you notice that the three heros "guarding" the tombs are wearing the same armor that the ancient desert statues are (and is still made by the dwarves to this day)?
18-01-2006, 23:23 #90
What if the Vizier gave this power to the Charr in order to defeat Ascalon so that the more powerful kingdom would be out of the count in the Guild Wars? That would result in the charr attacking Kryta with more troops, making Kryta easier to take for Orr. What the Vizier didn't realise was that the Charr would attack Orr too, and that he would have to use the same power that destroyed Ascalon to defeat them, and he messed things up royally.
The Mursaat could of realised that Orr had the power to unleash the Door of Komalie with the Sceptor of Orr, so they decided to aid Kryta so that they can guard the door. They figured that the Sceptor wasn't destroyed in the Cataclysm, so they had the White Mantle search for it. They didn't think that Ascalon was a threat to the door at all. That is probably one of the reasons the White Mantle, who were being controlled by the Mursaat, were reluctant to allow the Ascalonians to stay in Kryta. The Mursaat were worried that we might screw up their whole plan of protecting the gate, which we did.
The Seer was probably trying to stop the Mursaat because of the war they had with them. The Seer probably had no idea that the Mursaat were protecting the Door of Komalie.
One has to wonder though about Glint. If she knew the Vizier was attempting to destroy the world, why didnt she do anything about it? She's level frickin 30! She could take out those Titans like they were those level 1 works in Presearing. One has to question the morals of Glint. Kind of makes you wonder, perhaps the designers kept what Bilbo Baggins said about dragons; You can never trust a one.
The Charr were probably burning Mursaat effigies for their extreme hatred of them. You have to figure that they've been driven back out of Kryta because of them. This proves that there are Chosen among the Charr because how would they be able to make effigies of them if they couldn't see them?
The Charr definitly worship the titans, maybe even Ill go so far as to saying they created them? That would explain why they were attacking Orr. They wanted to get the Sceptor back so they could free their creations to end the war faster in their favor. I think thats stretching it though.