Margonite vs Elonian: Crystal Desert Civilizations

[Barinthus]

Yes that is a good piece. Quintus could you scan that page in so I can take a look at it?

As to the Relic destroying the Elona, I think it was just hte magic that destroyed them like what happened witht he Orr, perhaps a wave of energy or the like. I dont think it would have been thea ctually lost of water that did. I just siad that the evaporated water would have been an after effect, a side effect of hte weapons use.

But as Ridy commented this could be the answer regarding when and how the land was raised.

1. Did the gods raise the desert before or after they left? If they did it while they were still in Arah, that tells us water left prior tor 174 AE which also tells us the Elona and Margonites existed before then as they were there while the water was there, AND after the water left as structures on the botom of stream beds show.

So this new info really throws tings in a different direction.

From GW's own website - http://www.guildwars.com/theworld/re...staldesert.php

The Crystal Desert

Legends tell of a time, thousands of years ago, when the Crystal Desert was covered in water. These legends claim that it was the gods who raised the land, leaving it bare and empty in order to give the solitary creatures of the world a place to call their own. If the legends are true, humans were not among those for whom this land was made. There have been attempts by humans to settle in the desert, but they have, without exception, failed miserably, leaving behind only the grand monuments they built here, proclaiming their short-lived triumph over this harsh land.

The weather in the Crystal Desert is hot and unforgiving. The winds blow hard, making and unmaking dunes, covering up the present and uncovering the past. An examination of the sand will reveal that each grain is actually a tiny, pointed crystal. In isolated locations, larger crystal formations have been revealed by the constant, unforgiving wind.

Scott the Green

Also, Eratimus, I remember a while back you posted a thread that compiled all the text from the bleached bones, but I can't remember much about your findings from it. Were you able to figure out which group(s) they were a part of?

Eratimus - that's a good idea. I cannot recall whether if it was in this thread or in some other thead but I believe it was you or someone who suggested there was three groups - Margonites, Elonians, and one other. I believe bleached bones spoke of a group called the Seekers. The Seeker's Passage was named after them, perhaps?

[Eratimus]

Yes RilderView, it is possible for ANYTHING to have happened. It is even possible the Elona sprung from the water. But, the onlything we can go with UNTIL we find actuall evidense to the thoughts the possibloilities are unlimited. The Elona and all the rest could have come from ANYTHING and we can go on for ohours as to this. But what we HAVE to go with is what we know. When we find out the new evidense, not use, oh it could be this way, not because of this such and such evidense, but because why not? Get my meaning? I know there are unlimited ways and places the ppl could have come, but in science, you go with the evidense you have uncovered. That is whY try only to stick witht eh science behind it. I could conjure up many possiblities, but I dont want to fog up the science with it. While it is a valid point, anything that is decided should be based off of the evidense we see :) Which is why I post the specific evidense for why I decided a specific point. Othewise a reader would not know aht proof or evidense I had to surmise that thought.

Yes, I know it was Nity that found that. Good find. But this leads us down another line. If it was the Gods who raised the desert, did they do it before or after they left the Arah. the reson I ask is because specific events are depenent on it.

IF they did it anytime after they left, say from the Rift where htye are inabiting, then the Elona and Margonite could have come there at any point between when it was water, after the Gods left, then when the Gods raised the desert.

IF they raise dthe desert before they left Tyria, THEN that gives us evidense that the Elona DID exist prior to 274 AE.

So knowiing when the gods raide dthe desert reveals much about alot of knowledge and history of the world, not just, they raised it. If they raised it and at a specific moment, then it will effect a whole string of historical facts and unknowns. KNow what I mean?

Barinthus, I a not sure who it was but someone had posted that there were actually 3 ppls in the desert, but no evidense of this truth was ever posted, ie a SS of a dialogue etc, so it is currently up in the air.

Could you get the dialogue that Bleached Bones talks about this? Wuith out actually evidense, anything is possible. Not until we can say, OK there are three ppls int he desert, and this is why, will ppl finally accept certain aspects.

Like ppl saying, how could the Forgotten retreat to the desert when it was a water way. I came back with showing that WHEN it was a water way it was STILL a desert. So if there is some way we can get the dialogue it would be great.

AS to the talk about it being more then a desert if it had water. Not really true. What makes a desert a desert is not neccesarily the absense of water which I have posted. What makes the Cyrstal Desert a desert, whehter or not it has water or not is 1. the Crystaline sand prevents it from being fertile enough for the rooting of plans. The absense of plants prevents the maintainging of a top soil which is why deserts have dunes. Nothing keeps the soil where they are. It is the root systems that kep the soil stationary. This is WHY a water supplied area can be stripped of top soil by wind. Clear cutting rips away the root systems of arweas, taht is why we have wind and water erosion there. The cryhstal in the desert prevents plant growth, thus prevents the sand from becoming fertile soil, thus making dunes possible.

SO in the case of The Cyrstal Desert, AND Not something we see on EArth as many deserts exist, we find that it is a desert because of the lack of vegatation not water. The lack of vegattation due to the crystaline sand not being suititvle for plant gorwn, thus not allowing top soil to grow thus the land always shifting as dunes.

[jvxmtg]

SO in the case of The Cyrstal Desert, AND Not something we see on EArth as many deserts exist, we find that it is a desert because of the lack of vegatation not water. The lack of vegattation due to the crystaline sand not being suititvle for plant gorwn, thus not allowing top soil to grow thus the land always shifting as dunes.

Such a giant leap to a conclusion there, is it not?

The only cause of a water-filled area to become a desert is the rise on the temparature and the lack of rain falls on the area.

Assuming that your conclusion is true, how do you explain the existence of vegation in some areas of the Crystal Desert (Destiny's Gorge and area north of Thristy Rivers)?

[Quintus Antonius]

I have to agree that it is a large leap in conclusion. You, yourself, said we cannot jump to speculation.

If we are to keep this scientific, we can only base our conclusions on testable and observable facts. Without a composition of the crystals, we can't assume plant life can't grow in it. In fact, the prescence of plants in the Desert suggests otherwise.

[Eratimus]

I said in the beginnning that as we have the presence of water, what it would seem that what is preventing plant growth is the lack of fertile soil and high heat. I already said this. I did not jump toa complusion, I justsurmise an aspect of soemthign I had already stated, that it wwas either lack of proper soil and temperature.

As to the Oasis we find, Why are plants growing there? I would also assume that the areas are below the water table wjocj ot os deeper. But if you notice, the plants are NOT growing out of the sand. Theya re gowing otu of the soil DEEP beneath the crystal sand. This still supports me saying the life wont grow in the sand, only if it is below so far where there is the mantle of the desert free of the crystaline sand. It is growing yes since we have water, but also BECAUSE it is not crystline sand. WE see the area near Augury rock near the lvl of the sea bed, but they are also deeper then the sea bed.

Why do we see plants going in the oasis? Because they are below or at the water table, AND are deep enough to where they are not growing in the sand, but the fertile soil. This is why we dont see the same growing plants agove this area on the tops of thednes. They cant grow in the Crystline sand, which again, supports what I said.

[Barinthus]

Barinthus, I a not sure who it was but someone had posted that there were actually 3 ppls in the desert, but no evidense of this truth was ever posted, ie a SS of a dialogue etc, so it is currently up in the air.

Could you get the dialogue that Bleached Bones talks about this? Wuith out actually evidense, anything is possible. Not until we can say, OK there are three ppls int he desert, and this is why, will ppl finally accept certain aspects.

Ok - like I mentioned somewhere else I will soon completely explore the Desert and I was planning to look up every bleached bones I come across.

[Minelle Tempest]

Barinthus, I a not sure who it was but someone had posted that there were actually 3 ppls in the desert, but no evidense of this truth was ever posted, ie a SS of a dialogue etc, so it is currently up in the air.

I believe that was me.. on the first page of this thread, in fact. Here's a link to the post and a snippet of the dialogue: (said by the Ghostly Hero in Amnoon Oasis)

SInce my own people perished here, there have been two other groups who have followed suit, failing as we did to Ascend. The ghosts of many of their strongest spiritual leaders still haunt this place.

Before I posted this, I know I took a screenshot of the dialogue, but as that all that is on my other computer, I'm afraid I can't post it right now. I'll remember to do so at the earliest possible opportunity (if someone else doesn't beat me to it).

[Mashus Altorus]

i have just spotted something that might connect ascalon with crystal desert look at the picture with the "weapon" if anyone has this quest the stolen artifact the necromancer quest the artifact and this "weapon" look excatly the same lasyness maybe i dont know but hmmmmm maybe the searing follows this thing?
this may sound stupid but u never know...

[Eratimus]

Mashus, if you have not red the Ascalon/Desert connection thread we have s discussion on that aspect. We came to the thought that while they are not the same object, the Elona spoke of ancient weapon(s), which can say that they are they both may be one of these weapons.

[Eratimus]

I believe that was me.. on the first page of this thread, in fact. Here's a link to the post and a snippet of the dialogue: (said by the Ghostly Hero in Amnoon Oasis)


Before I posted this, I know I took a screenshot of the dialogue, but as that all that is on my other computer, I'm afraid I can't post it right now. I'll remember to do so at the earliest possible opportunity (if someone else doesn't beat me to it).

This is another Quandry, IF that ghost is Elonan and is the SAME ghost we speak of everywhere, the Champion of Elona, then this seems to say the Elona came first, then the Margonites, then our third gorup.

But, we also said the Margonite came first. So the quesiton is.

Base on the above, was it in fact the Elona or the Maronite that came first?