The Unseen Ones Revealed: A Cultural Survey of the Mursaat

[Ostriig]

Instead of guarding the desert, I think the mursaat switched to hunting down the human chosen at around the same time Glint told everyone about the flame seeker prophecies and the mursaat's destruction by the hands of the chosen. (Not sure how many years ago that would be.. around 800 or so, if I remember correctly.)

But again, there is no record of when the mursaat started sacrificing the chosen on the maguuma bloodstone, other than from the mantle.

I'm getting confused again... What was the primary objective in sacrificing the Chosen? I thought their souls were somehow supposed to keep the Titans imprisoned. Or were they simply taken out for being potential fulfillers of the Flameseeker Prophecies?

[teh Monkeys]

Good point you brought up here, Monkeys. I can't say with any more certainty than you on this, but it is possible that humans existed before the date in which the lore states. Aside from the Extra-dimensional beings, we have six races deemed intelligent enough to have a minimum of an oral record: Centaurs, Tengu, Charr, Humans, Dwarves, and Forgotten. Written records serve as more reliable proof to oral traditions, and I assume that out of the six, only Humans (one of the youngest of the races), Dwarves, and possibly Forgotten have written traditions. It is possible that humans have been in the world long before the date stated in the lore, but lacked a written tradition and were not noticed by the other races. Therefore, they could have travelled to the desert even before the Forgotten got there and Ascended. So it is still possible that the Mursaat may have once been human.

I'll go see if I can find my lore manual, but I'm quite sure the humans first arrived on Tyria after the forgotten came to tyria.

Right, here it is..

It was almost three thousand years ago that a race of serpents stepped out of the Rift onto the soil of Tyria.

Then some stuff is told about how they bring balance to the world.

And then there's this bit:

But then a new race of creatures was birthed upon the world. They were neither serpent nor beast. They were neither plant nor stone. etc. etc.

So tyrian humans cannot be older than three thousand years.

I'm getting confused again... What was the primary objective in sacrificing the Chosen? I thought their souls were somehow supposed to keep the Titans imprisoned. Or were they simply taken out for being potential fulfillers of the Flameseeker Prophecies?

Trust me, nobody's more confused than me. :p

The sacrificing of the chosen served two purposes: Keep the door of komali charged and prevent the flame seeker prophecies from coming true. The mursaat basicly killed two birds with one stone.

I'm not sure whether the door specificly requires the souls of the chosen to remain active, or just any old human souls, though.

[Ostriig]

The sacrificing of the chosen served two purposes: Keep the door of komali charged and prevent the flame seeker prophecies from coming true. The mursaat basicly killed two birds with one stone.

I'm not sure whether the door specificly requires the souls of the chosen to remain active, or just any old human souls, though.

I see. So basically, if the sacrifices also served to keep the actual prophecies from being fulfilled by eliminating potential candidates, then our own characters would be "Chosen", simply by fulfilling it. Still, the Eye of Janthir doesn't identify you as a being Chosen, right? Otherwise the Mantle/Mursaat would've been far more eager to add you to their little ritual, instead of having you escort the Eye and bringing in more sheep. So either the Mursaat are wrong to trust in the Eye of Janthir, or you are not in fact Chosen.

I know this might seem to be a tad off-topic, but I think it's pretty important, as the Mursaat go through a great deal to prevent the Flameseeker prophecies from coming to pass (no surprise there :P ), and that makes your own alter-ego a pretty important piece of their puzzle.

Yes, I know, I ask a lot of things, and it can get annoying... :P But as ANet seems content with letting me stare into the sun, I try to pick up the pieces any way I can. That's why I love threads like these .

[Djinn Effer]

This may be a little far out there.. But maybe Gwen is the leader of the Charr (she was quite fond of fire) and yeah I think the Mursaat were the good guys in the story. Even if they were sacrificing "Chosen", the "chosen" were chosen to complete the Flame Seeker Prophecies which effectivly is a pretty negative thing to the Mursaat. They were just protecting themselves really, and do we know if the Mursaat are destroyed now, or if the door of Kolmale was just some place they owned? I have some questions though:

• Who is Komale, or where?
  • Is that where the Titans are from?
• Who is Janthir, or is that a place as well?
• How could 8 people kill the entire Mursaat army if they were such a "fearful race of spell casters"
• Why were Ascalonian soldiers found dead in Glint's lair?
  • Did she kill them?
  • Did Adelburn know something we didn't?
  • How did they get there before us?
• What happend to Ascalon after all of this?
  • Did they rebuild?
  • Did they get destroyed?
  • Does Gwen return?
  • Does Adelburn ever moarn his son's death?
• Why does Cynn have a thong?
  • Is she with Mhenlo?
  • Why does Mhenlo have something about Alesia in his shirt?
  • Is Mhenlo cheating on Cynn?
  • Wait.. are they even a couple?
• Why is there a green glowy spirit thingy in Ashford Abbey?
  • Is it Mragga?
  • Is it a Ritualist spirit?
  • Why does it have a healing Ankh?
• Is Glint evil?
  • Is glint dead?
  • I killed Glint :o
  • Is Glint a girl or a boy?
  • Why did we listen to Glint?
  • How many dragons are there, did you see all her eggs?
• Why is the Hell's Precipice end cinematic so stupid?
• What are Grawl?
  • Are they Charr?
  • Whats their relation to Charr?
  • If so, why are they all over the Shiverpeaks and Charr arn't?
• What happend to Tombs?
  • Does it look like you walk into a big ocotopus' butt to anyone else?
  • Why do darkness drop named green items, yet those bosses don't exist?
    • Who is Victo?
    • Who is Illyana?
    • Who is Milus, and why is his eye on a stick?
  • Why did they make it so long?
  • Was that statue of Melandru there before?

[Durza the Shadeking]

Accutully with the Eye of Janthir, you are "cleansed" so I'm gussing I wouldn't see you as chosen.

[Erasculio]

Still, the Eye of Janthir doesn't identify you as a being Chosen, right? Otherwise the Mantle/Mursaat would've been far more eager to add you to their little ritual, instead of having you escort the Eye and bringing in more sheep. So either the Mursaat are wrong to trust in the Eye of Janthir, or you are not in fact Chosen.

Here's the thing: I think the Whitle Mantle were unlucky. We know only two groups can go nearby the Eye of Janthir without being rejected by it (the knock down effect we see): the Chosen, and those who have been purified to take the Eye and use it to test everyone.

We, the players, were in the first group, but since we did the cleasing ritual, everyone assumed the Eye was not rejecting us because we had been purified, not because we were Chosen.

*Hands a cookie to ostring, because he's hungry*

Erasculio

[Quintus Antonius]

Alright, I can't really quote everyone I want to, so I'll just address some points that came up over the topic of conversation.

About my timeline, as I mentioned in my original post, it is very, very inaccurate, and was just my best guess. So don't put to much stock into it, it was just my way of organizing the facts into a rough draft of things. However, the Shining Blade were in fact defeated. I believe in one of the missions, a White Mantler (possibly Marcus?) says that the Henge of Denravi has been overrun. That's how they captured the Shining Blade leaders (Evienna and the lot).

I conceed that I don't know for sure that the Mursaat can't walk. However, I still feel their greaves restrict leg movement. The average Mursaat civilian may be able to walk, or maybe not, I'm not sure, but what they are wearing when we fight them is most likely a type of ceremonial battle armor.

The Chosen are the only ones who can be sacrificed because the Chosen are descendants of King Doric, who's blood originally sealed the door and created the Bloodstones. Read your Manuscripts for a more detailed description of this. However, the Chosen are the only ones who have the sufficent magical potential to keep the soul batteries charged and the Door of Komalie closed. The Mursaat have to sacrafice them on the Bloodstones to harness this.

teh Monkeys brought up an interesting point. I think it is highly probable that the Great Giants are the Titans. Although, as mentioned, it is hard to substantiate that, because we just don't have enough information at this time. I feel that, eventually, ANet will release details on all of these plot holes. I suspect that the fiction involving Cynn, Devona, and Mhenlo was suppose to be a companion to all this, but because no one really read it, ANet discontinued it, and that is why there are plot holes. The characters were probably suppose to find out these answers as they went along. Still, I'm glad they didn't because now we get to have fun speculating. I just wish, like many others, that someone from ANet would post here and confirm or deny our theories, or at least, point us in the right direction.

When I was intially doing my research, I started playing with the idea that the Mursaat were once the Druids. However, I don't feel this is the case any longer because the Druids only disappeared a decade ago (according to in game sources) and we know that the Mursaat have been around longer than that. The Druids had a type of Ascension where they literally became one with the forest. In fact, this is a Druidic belief from the druids of Earth's history. We see the Druid-spirits in one of the Maguuma missions. I truly think the idea of a Mursaat-Druid evolutionary link is unlikely, yet, I can't say so for sure without absolute proof, which we do not have. I also do not feel the Mursaat are the Elonians or the Margonites, as it has been said that both of these civilizations failed their bid at Ascension.

I hope I have answered some questions. I would like to thank all of you for having so much input and supporting me like this. You may not realize it, but by posting and discussing my research, you have flattered me. This is my first project for the GWPS, and I was afraid it would bomb. So, thank you very much for your support, it means a lot to me. Maybe I should do a book signing? =D Anyway, I do hope that gwonline.net supports the GWPS and gives us our own section to discuss these topics. I know it would be very informative and helpful to the GW community as a whole to have a proper forum to discuss this, instead of having to sift through the piles of other stuff that isn't lore-related at all but is in the same forums as this. I mentioned to Eramitus that the GWPS should lobby the community to make a forum for us, but I don't know his plans. Perhaps we should make a petition? Would any one like to head that?

Once again, thank you for your support, and may everyone who reads this be inspired to dig a little deeper into the lore of Tyria. ANet put more thought into this than many give them credit for.

[Ostriig]

Here's the thing: I think the Whitle Mantle were unlucky. We know only two groups can go nearby the Eye of Janthir without being rejected by it (the knock down effect we see): the Chosen, and those who have been purified to take the Eye and use it to test everyone.

We, the players, were in the first group, but since we did the cleasing ritual, everyone assumed the Eye was not rejecting us because we had been purified, not because we were Chosen.

*Hands a cookie to ostring, because he's hungry*

Erasculio

What I was asking is whether we were in the first group you mention or it was simply assumed that we were in it. I guess you (and Durza the Shadeking) say it's the latter possibility. Well, that should clear this up, thanks. I guess I hadn't look at it that way.

Why is the Hell's Precipice end cinematic so stupid?

To match the rest of them, pherhaps?

*Hands a cookie to ostring, because he's hungry*

Many thanks! My avatar is in your debt, you're the first to show him this kindness.

Ostriig
(with "ii", not "in" )

[Ostriig]

I conceed that I don't know for sure that the Mursaat can't walk. However, I still feel their greaves restrict leg movement. The average Mursaat civilian may be able to walk, or maybe not, I'm not sure, but what they are wearing when we fight them is most likely a type of ceremonial battle armor.

Ok, ok, I get it, we'll leave it at that for now.

The Chosen are the only ones who can be sacrificed because the Chosen are descendants of King Doric, who's blood originally sealed the door and created the Bloodstones. Read your Manuscripts for a more detailed description of this. However, the Chosen are the only ones who have the sufficent magical potential to keep the soul batteries charged and the Door of Komalie closed. The Mursaat have to sacrafice them on the Bloodstones to harness this.

Thanks, this area was especially vague to me. I've read through the Manuscripts when I first got GW though, and I don't recall there being any mention of anything of the sort. Besides, could they include it, wouldn't that count as spoilers for a new player?

Referring to what you said about GWO providing a separate section for this sort of threads, it seems like a very good idea. I think that if a poll or some other way of asking the community's opinion on the idea was employed, you could very well get that.

Slightly off topic, I'd like to suggest something. GWO seems to have somewhat of a connection with The Dark Library, as it was advertised on the GWO site not long ago. Nevertheless, TDL only has one measly character concept under its Guild Wars section. Wouldn't studies such as this one make good material to be submitted to TDL (of course, once they were summed up and put in a more typical form for this sort of thing)?

Ah, anyway, time I got some sleep (00.04). Goodnight all, and keep it up!

[teh Monkeys]

I love topics like these, and I do hope you'll start more of them in the future. ;)

Ok, I'm still not sure what the door of komali is exactly. Let's see what I do know.

It's located inside Abbadon's Mouth, where the gods of old placed the bloodstones.
It's charged by souls sacrificed on a bloodstone
It requires a steady supply of souls to remain active
It was built by the mursaat. Take a close look at the architecture and the materials used. (mainly jade) - I don't have a screenie, but most of you know what the door looks like.

That is all I can say for certain. So.. enter speculation:

I believe that it was the mursaat who locked up the titans, since they were the ones who I believe built the gate. I do not know how or why, all I know is that they were either the ones who locked them up, or they were the gatekeepers. Or both. :p

Ok, so taking all this into context, I've reached 2 conclusions. Both are sketchy at best.

Possibility number one:

The door has been active for a period longer than human existance on tyria. (so, well over a thousand years.) Since there is no written record of titans anywhere on tyria, besides the possible link to Giganticus Lupicus. (meaning the titans were locked away around the year 10.000 BE)

However, there was also no written record of the Mursaat or the Seer up to this point. Oh the plot holes.

*Note to Anet: GW needs more lore. More lore is always good.

Possibility number two:

The door of komali relies on the bloodstones to function. The old gods did not create the bloodstones until exodus, the year zero. So the earliest time the door of komali could have been active would be around exodus.

So over a period of around 200 years, it's possible that the humans and titans co-existed. Yet there is no written record of this. But then again, there was no written account of the mursaat or seer either.

Now take a look at this:

Historians speculate that in time out of mind, these now-ruined watchtowers guarded Kryta from some unkown northern threat. Now the crumbled towers stand like ancient stone soldiers still awaiting the arrival of that mysterious enemy from across the grand saltwater lake known as the Giant's Basin.

A mysterious threat from the north.

Who or what lives, or used to live, up in the nothern wastelands? There is no record of humans ever being there. The Charr live up north. Could the Titans and the mursaat have lived up north aswell at some point? Is that why the Charr have effigies of the mursaat and titans in their warcamps? Did the ancient Krytans build the watchtowers to protect themselves from the mursaat/titans?

So many questions, even more vagueness and complication. :)