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  1. #21
    Nice Reaserach man :D o and dont forget the temple in that one area..i forgot whats it called..well it have a temple with lots of bone dragons and a done dragon boss..

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Farbow
    Nice Reaserach man :D o and dont forget the temple in that one area..i forgot whats it called..well it have a temple with lots of bone dragons and a done dragon boss..
    The area you're referring to is Majesty's Rest. Even that name invokes some kind of intrigue... to which Majesty does this refer to? And is that even a temple? If so, why are Bone Dragons and Rotscale protecting it? Hmm... The White Mantle had the Scepter of Orr, and Rotscale is a large bone dragon... So perhaps they're controlling him?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselChops
    The only Mursat effigies I've seen are right outside Frontier Gate, they look cool.

    Perhaps the Charr erected them out of fear after the Mursaat handed them their a*s in Kryta. Learnt their lesson and stopped trying to invade the green, green grass of Kryta.
    I think that this explanation for the reason of the effigies is pretty reasonable. But with all the different theories hanging around, we could never know the true answer until ArenaNet comes out and laughs at us for never figuring it out three years from now.

    I also thought that possibly they built them out of hatred. Assuming the Charr worship the Titans, the burning effigies could possibly symbolize their hatred and hope that their fire gods (Titans) would come back and burn the Mursaat to the ground.

    Overall this article proved to be quite the read and makes me hope for more to come concerning the game world's history.


    Edit:

    While on the subject of the Temples, what is that metallic (UFO-like) object laying inside the cave of the temple of Lyssa? It glows and emits some sort of humming sound. It has been tickling my curiousity for a while.
    Last edited by gotikplage; 13-02-2006 at 01:35.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Farbow
    Nice Reaserach man :D o and dont forget the temple in that one area..i forgot whats it called..well it have a temple with lots of bone dragons and a done dragon boss..
    The area you are refering to is Majesty's Rest, and the dragon is Rotscale.

    Majesty's Rest is where the royal dead of Kryta are buried, there is no Mursaat connection there. I explored the area a few days ago, and I found no evidence to suggest it is anything other than a burial mound for the Krytan royal family.

  5. #25
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    Also a quick note about teh burning efegies.

    Why are we assuming that the burning effegies are being worshipped? If the char indeed fought with the mursaat ages ago it could be like a war totem or more likely a protection totem against said mursaat. And given the char side with the titans who are/were being supressed by the Mursaat we can only assume that the burning is one of hate... I mean their burning for gods sake >_>

    Unless someone can fill me in on precisely why we're all instinctively assuming their worshipping the burning effegies, I'll have to consider it to be baloney :/

  6. #26
    Can you explain to me how you think the Mursaat are an "Ascended race"? I don't understand it, or am missing something. Thanks! Great hypothesis otherwise.

    I disagree with the Forgotten Armors being linked to Mursaat; I think they are servants of the Forgotten (or creations).

    Also, I don't think that the Eye of Janthir is the Mursaat's sigil, and some of your theories are too heavily weighed on what I see as a tool of the Mursaat. 1) The White Mantle, the "keepers of the eye", and they do not seem to focus on that symbol. 2) I think it is a magical tool the Mursaat have made, not a racial focal point. 3) The eye is a widely used marking being one of the most distinctive features of a being. I do like your theory that the Mursaat do not worship the gods because the Mursaat know the gods are "flawed."

  7. #27
    Snarglesnarfle
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    Why are we assuming that the burning effegies are being worshipped?
    The reason I think its the Charr worshipping the Mursaat instead of fearing or defiling is because the manuscript. It says that "Each night when they make camp, the Flame carriers erect a flammable effigy in the shape of one of their Gods, then ignite it and let it burn till daylight." (p.59) It makes sense to me.

    The Charr stopped attacking Kryta because they had their furry rear ends so completely handed to them by the White Mantle that it would have been too much work to keep assaulting the area.
    I'm having trouble believing that the Charr got baddly beaten. The manuscript several times mentions that Kryta was "Beaten, outnumbered, leaderless, and facing certain death" and that when Saul came on the scene he only "managed" to drive the Charr back.

    I'm also having trouble with Saul. "In the last offensive of the war against the Charr, Saul led his troops deep into Charr territory. His network of spies, though normally quite effective, failed him this day. The Charr were waiting in an ambush, and the beastly creatures slaughtered Saul's unit to the man." Why was he launching an offence into Charr territory? Thatís over the Shiverpeaks and through Ascalon. Surely he didn't need to do all that just to protect Kryta. Another problem with this is that if the Charr killed every last man, then how did anybody ever figure out what happened? If everyone was dead, then no one should have known what happened to Saul.

    If you ask me, the Charr seem to display a bit more intelligence than theyíve been credited with.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Snarglesnarfle
    I'm also having trouble with Saul. <snip> Why was he launching an offence into Charr territory? Thatís over the Shiverpeaks and through Ascalon. Surely he didn't need to do all that just to protect Kryta.
    I think it was mentioned that there is another pass through the Shiverpeaks held by the Charr north of Borlis Pass. So to get to Charr-held territory, they might not have had to go as far as you think. But, good snag othewrise

  9. #29
    First off, I just want to say how much I love this thread. D'Alessio and the White Mantle (and via extension, the Mursaat) are my favorite part of this game. (If only the White Mantle weren't evil, for they were my heroes...)

    Anyway, on this conflict regarding who the Charr are worshipping: It is entirely possible that they do worship both without any conflict of logic. In real life faiths of past antiquity, humankind has set aside practices of worship for those gods that are in opposition to their favored deity (Set against Ra would be one example, Loki and Thor another). These gods battle across the cosmos, and as many in these forums have suggested, it is quite possible that the Charr witnessed a battle between the Mursaat and the Titans, and saw both as gods. They then identified with one, but still show respect toward the other.

    I will admit, not having finished the game, that my knowledge is likely flawed, but if anyone wants to elaborate on this point, feel free.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgilti Lightfoot
    First off, I just want to say how much I love this thread. D'Alessio and the White Mantle (and via extension, the Mursaat) are my favorite part of this game. (If only the White Mantle weren't evil, for they were my heroes...)

    Anyway, on this conflict regarding who the Charr are worshipping: It is entirely possible that they do worship both without any conflict of logic. In real life faiths of past antiquity, humankind has set aside practices of worship for those gods that are in opposition to their favored deity (Set against Ra would be one example, Loki and Thor another). These gods battle across the cosmos, and as many in these forums have suggested, it is quite possible that the Charr witnessed a battle between the Mursaat and the Titans, and saw both as gods. They then identified with one, but still show respect toward the other.

    I will admit, not having finished the game, that my knowledge is likely flawed, but if anyone wants to elaborate on this point, feel free.
    Thank you for making your point so well, as it is the exact same point I was trying to make when I made my case for the Charr having witnessed a battle between the Mursaat and Titans in a time long forgotten. I feel that is exactly the same principle that explains why they worship the Mursaat and the Titans.

    Don't be too bummed, Lightfoot, if you are like me, and from what I read, you seem to be, then there is hope. I feel that the Mursaat are actually the good guys in the game.

    Let's look at the evidence. They saved Kryta. Let's face it, they didn't have to do that, the Charr weren't an immediate threat to them, and it didn't matter if they Krytans were around. They have been keeping the Titans locked away. Sure they had to kill a few Chosen to do it, but they realized that the deaths of a few mean the lives of many. It was wrong, yes, but they did what needed to be done. They took in the Ascalonian refugees. They could've just said screw you and left it at that, but not only did they let Ascalonians live in their lands, they also sent White Mantle envoys (Ambassador Zahn) to Ascalon to try to help rebuild. I think if Ascalon would get off its high horse and ask the White Mantle for assistance, that the Charr could be firmly beaten. Also consider that under the rule of the White Mantle, which is indirectly the rule of the Mursaat, Kryta reached new levels of prosperity.

    In the end, I think we are too quick to believe the Shining Blade just because they are the resistance movement, and Glint, just because she is an ancient dragon. In the end, everyone of the powers we are used by, with the exception of Vizer Kilborn, turns out to be afraid of the Titans. Glint wants them destroyed, the Seers want them destroyed, Ascalon needs them destroyed, Kryta is threated, the Shining Blade are threatened. In other words, the survival of all of these people was dependant on the Mursaat. Glint wrote the Flameseeker Prophecies, Glint manipulated all sides, it is Glint we should be worrying about, not the Mursaat. And yet, Glint still lives... The Mursaat aren't the bad guys here, far from it. Just because the Shining Blade says they are, doesn't mean it is true. But all that is just my own interpertation of the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravious Pretagata
    Can you explain to me how you think the Mursaat are an "Ascended race"? I don't understand it, or am missing something. Thanks! Great hypothesis otherwise.

    I disagree with the Forgotten Armors being linked to Mursaat; I think they are servants of the Forgotten (or creations).

    Also, I don't think that the Eye of Janthir is the Mursaat's sigil, and some of your theories are too heavily weighed on what I see as a tool of the Mursaat. 1) The White Mantle, the "keepers of the eye", and they do not seem to focus on that symbol. 2) I think it is a magical tool the Mursaat have made, not a racial focal point. 3) The eye is a widely used marking being one of the most distinctive features of a being. I do like your theory that the Mursaat do not worship the gods because the Mursaat know the gods are "flawed."
    Look, I am by no means pushing anyone to believe what I am saying. If you feel so inclined, feel free to go out there into the Jungle and Desert, and wherever else you need to, and do you own research and present it here. Until we have solid proof refuting what I have come up with, it is only the best guess I can give. I would be more than happy to read whatever other evidence anyone else can come up with, multiple opinions are always a good thing, when backed by evidence.

    I feel that the Enchanted Armors must be linked to the Mursaat because they were obviously made for Mursaat physiology, as shown in my diagrams. Also, if the Eye is not an important symbol to the Mursaat, why does it appear on their armor and not, as far as I've found, on any other races armor?

    But yes, I could be 100% wrong on all of this, as I've said, I can only give you the data based on the information I have found. As a scientist, I can only give you a conclusion based on what is testable and observable; and as a historian, I can only give you data based on what has happened in the past.

    We formed the Guild Wars Paleoanthropological Society so that anyone can present their data in a forum, for discussion. I encourage all who have a hypothesis to put it on the forums, it is a great way to dive deeper into the lore of Tyria, and I wish all of you good hunting, I hope we have helped to inspire you to find your own facts in some way.
    Last edited by Quintus Antonius; 13-02-2006 at 03:51.

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