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  1. #1

    It's all his fault! (Speculation about the Vizier)

    The more and more I play the game and think about parts of the lore we know already, the more I keep thinking about one conlusion I've made. The Vizier is behind the Stone Summit Civil War and the Charr invading the human kingdoms. He is trying to take over the world.

    Okay, now, before you start proving my wrong with all of the studies you have done, just remember, this is all speculation. Let's think about it, the Vizier knows about the Sceptor of Orr and knows its power of controlling the titans, we don't know how yet, probably by venturing into whereever he got the scroll that caused the Cataclysm. I think that he was down in their before the Charr invaded, probably looking for information about the Sceptor, and found this scroll. The "Turn user and all nearby allies into undead" scroll.

    So if he was going to take over the world, who were his threats? The humans and the Stone Summit (lets assume he didn't have any previous knowledge of the Mursatt). So he somehow starts a dwarf war (dont know how just yet), and "convinces?" the Charr to attack the human Kingdoms. How he did either, I don't know, but for the latter, he may have somehow shown them the Sceptor or something to convince them that he was able to control the titans (their gods). First they go to Ascalon, this goes as planned, as Ascalon was almost destroyed. Perhaps he gave them the magic for the Searing. Then Orr, which is when he causes the Cataclysm and becomes the Lich.

    Once he's the Lich and sees that the Mursatt have appeared in Kryta to help defend it, he needs something to destroy them, since fueling the Shining Blades efforts isn't enough. So he gets us to ascend, and help kill the Mursatt. However, he didn't expect us to become powerful enough to defeat him.

    Major Flaw in my theory:
    Where the hell does Glint fit into all this?

    Post Comments/Facts proving me wrong.

    ~Nidy~

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by nidy
    The more and more I play the game and think about parts of the lore we know already, the more I keep thinking about one conlusion I've made. The Vizier is behind the Stone Summit Civil War and the Charr invading the human kingdoms. He is trying to take over the world.

    Okay, now, before you start proving my wrong with all of the studies you have done, just remember, this is all speculation. Let's think about it, the Vizier knows about the Sceptor of Orr and knows its power of controlling the titans, we don't know how yet, probably by venturing into whereever he got the scroll that caused the Cataclysm. I think that he was down in their before the Charr invaded, probably looking for information about the Sceptor, and found this scroll. The "Turn user and all nearby allies into undead" scroll.
    We don't know whether the Orrians fully understood the power of the Scepter of Orr. And the vizier doesn't start on trying to take over the world by getting the scepter, after he turns into the lich. It is my belief that the Vizier was not a bad man. We find no evidence of this ANYWHERE. Everything suggests the vizier was loyal to the king and his homeland. I firmly believe the Lost Scrolls and their forbidden magics warped him and turned him into an evil, undead lich bent on global conquest.

    So if he was going to take over the world, who were his threats? The humans and the Stone Summit (lets assume he didn't have any previous knowledge of the Mursatt). So he somehow starts a dwarf war (dont know how just yet), and "convinces?" the Charr to attack the human Kingdoms. How he did either, I don't know, but for the latter, he may have somehow shown them the Sceptor or something to convince them that he was able to control the titans (their gods). First they go to Ascalon, this goes as planned, as Ascalon was almost destroyed. Perhaps he gave them the magic for the Searing. Then Orr, which is when he causes the Cataclysm and becomes the Lich.
    How were the stone summit or even the dwarves a threat? The dwarves hardly, if ever, leave the Shiverpeaks. And the only contact they seem to have with the outside world is with the neighbouring human nations, for trade purposes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nidy
    The more and more I play the game and think about parts of the lore we know already, the more I keep thinking about one conlusion I've made. The Vizier is behind the Stone Summit Civil War and the Charr invading the human kingdoms. He is trying to take over the world.

    Okay, now, before you start proving my wrong with all of the studies you have done, just remember, this is all speculation. Let's think about it, the Vizier knows about the Sceptor of Orr and knows its power of controlling the titans, we don't know how yet, probably by venturing into whereever he got the scroll that caused the Cataclysm. I think that he was down in their before the Charr invaded, probably looking for information about the Sceptor, and found this scroll. The "Turn user and all nearby allies into undead" scroll.

    So if he was going to take over the world, who were his threats? The humans and the Stone Summit (lets assume he didn't have any previous knowledge of the Mursatt). So he somehow starts a dwarf war (dont know how just yet), and "convinces?" the Charr to attack the human Kingdoms. How he did either, I don't know, but for the latter, he may have somehow shown them the Sceptor or something to convince them that he was able to control the titans (their gods). First they go to Ascalon, this goes as planned, as Ascalon was almost destroyed. Perhaps he gave them the magic for the Searing. Then Orr, which is when he causes the Cataclysm and becomes the Lich.

    Once he's the Lich and sees that the Mursatt have appeared in Kryta to help defend it, he needs something to destroy them, since fueling the Shining Blades efforts isn't enough. So he gets us to ascend, and help kill the Mursatt. However, he didn't expect us to become powerful enough to defeat him.

    Major Flaw in my theory:
    Where the hell does Glint fit into all this?

    Post Comments/Facts proving me wrong.

    ~Nidy~
    The one thing I don't understand is how the Lich manages to manipulate the Charr and Stone Summit before he ever exists. That's one powerful dude if he can do that. Remember, the Stone Summit and the Deldrimor Dwarves have been warring for awhile, and the Charr have always been aggressive.

    Still, I do agree with you on the fact that the Lich was pushing the Shining Blade and White Mantle against each other. The Mursaat are unquestionably his enemy, as they are the only ones truly standing between him and his goal.

    I personally feel that this whole situation is far bigger than just Glint or the Lich. There are many different parties, pushing many different agendas. Long story short, the s*** hit the fan, and as players, we have to wade through it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius
    The one thing I don't understand is how the Lich manages to manipulate the Charr and Stone Summit before he ever exists. That's one powerful dude if he can do that. Remember, the Stone Summit and the Deldrimor Dwarves have been warring for awhile, and the Charr have always been aggressive.

    Still, I do agree with you on the fact that the Lich was pushing the Shining Blade and White Mantle against each other. The Mursaat are unquestionably his enemy, as they are the only ones truly standing between him and his goal.

    I personally feel that this whole situation is far bigger than just Glint or the Lich. There are many different parties, pushing many different agendas. Long story short, the s*** hit the fan, and as players, we have to wade through it.
    Well, the Vizier, if he knew of the Sceptors power, could have used that to convince the titans. The Summit...hmmm.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by teh Monkeys
    How were the stone summit or even the dwarves a threat? The dwarves hardly, if ever, leave the Shiverpeaks. And the only contact they seem to have with the outside world is with the neighbouring human nations, for trade purposes.
    Seems there's at least one sect of dwarves that 'worships' Glint.. perhaps that's the threat?

  6. #6
    I think that if the Vizer knew about the powers of the Scepter and the Titans he would be knowledgable enought to know about the Mursaat and the Door of Komali seeing as they are large figures in the Titan story. If he is manipulating the peices on the board, I think he is goal would ultimatly be to weaken the Mursaat so that he can get access to the Titans.

    As for the nature of the Viser himself... there is alot of mystery here. Well, duh thats why we are talking about him! But seriously, we don't know if he was always evil, evil after finding the scroll, evil after the cataclysm, etc. Was he always undead or is that a recent lifestyle change for him ? Either way we know that he is the Flameseeker of the Flameseeker Prophecies (right?). Now if only we knew exactly what the prophecies said!

  7. #7
    Quintus is right, the Cataclysm (that created the Lich) happened after the Searing, the Lich cannot have incited the Charr invasion as he simply did not exist at this point.

    For more information on this see http://www.guildwars.com/theworld/story/kingdomorr.php

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  8. #8
    I forgot one other posibility! The Lich could only be taking the form of the Vizier while the real one is dead. Not that I necesarily believe this but I want to cover all the possibilities.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus Dio
    I forgot one other posibility! The Lich could only be taking the form of the Vizier while the real one is dead. Not that I necesarily believe this but I want to cover all the possibilities.
    Actually, that makes alot of sense to me. The scroll that the Vizer unleashed, might have contained the "soul" of the Lich, which then proceeded to hijack the body of the Vizer. After all, if the Vizer was at the epicenter of the blast, why did he bodily survive when the entire pensula of Orr was sunk?

    I'm not sure if anyone here is familiar with the Wishmaster series of horror films, but that's exactly what happens. The Djinn possess the body of the first person he kills, and then masquerades as him.

  10. #10
    Lots of good ideas. Especially the one about the Lich taking over the Vizier's body. We really need to know if the Vizier was a good person or not, and whether he went looking for the scroll for good intentions or not.

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