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  1. #1
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    Glint and Ascalons

    I wasn't sure should I start a new thread or rez an older thread. The thing with old threads sometimes you have like 5 or 6 discussions going on and I just didn't want to add one more cluttering up that thread.

    Anyway as you may have seen this in one other thread, I didn't want to threadjack so that's the reason I opened a new thread. If I should have done something different, do let me know.

    Anyway, check this out...



    Here's a transcript just in case:

    Old Ascalon Spirit:These spirits are at peace because of you. They gave their lives protecting the Wall.

    Old Ascalon Spirit:The story of our destruction was foretold long ago. Our names might as well have been written in the Flameseeker Prophecies.

    Old Ascalon Spirit:Heed the words of the prophet. The sons of Ascalon must not die in vain.

    Ok, what does this mean? When I first came across those spirits I assumed those were soldiers who died long time ago in wars against the Charr but now my impression is more of that they died during the Searing due to the reference to the Prophecies. Look at line 1 and line 2. They protected the Wall during the Searing which was the 'destruction' mentioned. Why did they say that part about their names might as well be mentioned in the Prophecies? That's where my reasoning came from.

    Line 3 said
    Heed the words of the prophet
    suggests that the Ascalons knew of the Prophecies.

    So? you may think to yourself... to have the knowledge of those prophecies, they must had some kind of connection to Glint either directly or indirectly. If they didn't have some kind of connection to Glint, they would have never heard of the prophecies.

    It could be like this...

    Direct Connection
    Glint appeared before Ascalon religious leaders centuries ago and handed the Prophecies to them.

    See that thread on the connection between Ascalon and the Desert. If this is the case, it'd support the notion that Ascalons had direct connection to the Desert.

    Also in Ascalon you can find pillars with carvings of dragons which could be from some distant ancient collective memory of Glint and the time she interacted more directly with them.

    Indirect Connection

    1. Due to trading with Elonians or Margorites or whoever (either directly or via a third party) the Ascalons learned of the Prophecies.

    Why would the Ascalons adopt a foreign prophecy? It'd be akin to 'modern' Ascalons suddenly converting to the worshipping of the Unseen Gods in Pre-Searing.

    2. During the early days of ancient [pseudo]Ascalon civilization they warred with the Forgotten and came across the Prophecies

    This is even less likely in my opinion. Adopting a prophecy of a race not even human-like. Heck, centaurs look more similar to Ascalons than the Forgotten does.

    I realize I'm speculating big time here but I thought it'd be an interesting discussion. Perhaps as the other thread 'Flameseeker Prophecies' expand, we will find some more information.

  2. #2
    There is a group of Deldrimor Dwarves that actually keep open communication with Glint via the altar in Droknar's Forge. The Ascalons and Deldrimor had previous alliances and probably trade. I imagine the dwarves might have passed along a prophecy if it mentioned an ally nation by name.

  3. #3
    I suspect that knowledge of the Flameseeker Prophecies is widely spread across Tyria. Probably via the Deldrimor Dwarves as mentioned. Probably few people believe it much but as these are spirits thye probably got a different view after their deaths.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowSword
    I suspect that knowledge of the Flameseeker Prophecies is widely spread across Tyria. Probably via the Deldrimor Dwarves as mentioned. Probably few people believe it much but as these are spirits thye probably got a different view after their deaths.
    Yes, it is also possible that, upon their deaths, they became aware of more than they knew while alive. We don't know the nature of the afterlife of Tyria, beyond what we see in the Hall of Heroes and Underworld.

    Also remember that Ascalon was the first, and is the oldest, of the three human kingdoms on the continent of Tyria. In all that time, I'm sure a few people came across the Prophecies, and spread them. It is also possible that, as suggested, Glint either appeared directly to the Ascalonians, or appeared indirectly to a third party that then either melded with the Ascalon culture, or interacted with it.

    The nature of the Ascalonian kingdoms previous relations with the Deldrimor Dwarves is of some note, because we just don't know the extent of this relationship. Perhaps an investigation is in order...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowSword
    I suspect that knowledge of the Flameseeker Prophecies is widely spread across Tyria. Probably via the Deldrimor Dwarves as mentioned. Probably few people believe it much but as these are spirits thye probably got a different view after their deaths.

    That's possible. My question is basically how did people knew of the Prophecies and I still find it dubious that Ascalons would be quick to embrace some ramblings from dwarves - allies or not.

    As for the dead being more knowledgable - again, that's possible. However based on what I've seen among souls in UW, they doesn't seem that enlightened - just the same way they were before they died.

    Of course it's possible they met other souls who knew more about those matters and learned from them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barinthus
    That's possible. My question is basically how did people knew of the Prophecies and I still find it dubious that Ascalons would be quick to embrace some ramblings from dwarves - allies or not.

    As for the dead being more knowledgable - again, that's possible. However based on what I've seen among souls in UW, they doesn't seem that enlightened - just the same way they were before they died.

    Of course it's possible they met other souls who knew more about those matters and learned from them.
    Yes well look at the UW, we find like two dozen souls down there, tops. Thousands of people die everyday, from a variety of causes. Where are they? I'd say that the UW is sort of a limbo for souls who are having trouble adjusting to the afterlife. There must be some sort of cosmic end of the line for souls, like a Heaven or something. There are other realms beyond the Mists that we don't know about yet.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Barinthus
    That's possible. My question is basically how did people knew of the Prophecies and I still find it dubious that Ascalons would be quick to embrace some ramblings from dwarves - allies or not.

    As for the dead being more knowledgable - again, that's possible. However based on what I've seen among souls in UW, they doesn't seem that enlightened - just the same way they were before they died.

    Of course it's possible they met other souls who knew more about those matters and learned from them.
    Which actually seems to fit. Even after the Searing, few (living) Ascalonians seem to give much credence to the prophecies, but they do seem to be well known... enough. I suspect that the prophecy is known in Ascalon, but few have actually read it (explaining why the PCs don't know it) and fewer still actually believe it.

    In the case of the ghost soldiers, it could be that they had a revelation in the shock of being at ground zero during the Searing. Besides, only one actually mentions it - it could be that one happens to believe (whether before death or after) without necassarily implying the others agree.

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    Good points, both.

    I suspect that the prophecy is known in Ascalon, but few have actually read it (explaining why the PCs don't know it) and fewer still actually believe it.
    Reminds me of the Bible. In medevial Europe, not many people actually read the Bible - what they knew of the Holy Book came from the Church and its clergy. I suspect it's still true as of today - come on, how many of you actually have read the Bible cover to cover, much less actually studying it?

  9. #9
    I think these last few points are valid. Correct me if I am wrong but the first we hear of the prophecy as players it is from Meerak at the Frontier Gate. He seems to have become a religious fanatic after the events of the searing and appears to be shouting about an obscure or often disregarded religious canon.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barinthus
    Reminds me of the Bible. In medevial Europe, not many people actually read the Bible - what they knew of the Holy Book came from the Church and its clergy. I suspect it's still true as of today - come on, how many of you actually have read the Bible cover to cover, much less actually studying it?
    I have, and I do.

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