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  1. #21
    Just for clarity's sake, given the previous result, I would always go for the fastest weapon...

    I let you imagine the reasons...

  2. #22
    Weird, this thread is full of people who are half-right, but nobody seems to have the whole bag.....

    Whether variability (i.e. higher standard-deviation) in damage is good or not is completely situation dependent.

    Removing all side-effects from the picture, in 1v1 fights, low attack speed but equal DPS is preferable, because you 'front-load' the damage. But 1v1 fights don't exist in real situations generally, and 'front-loaded' damage has the problem of overkill (i.e. you deal 100 dmg to an enemy with only 10 life).

    I would argue, however, that it takes long enough to switch targets in most cases (relative to weapon swing times) that overkill is generally irrelevant, so I would say that the general case favors slower attack speed (cetainly does in FPS. Q2 railgun had half the DPS of the chaingun, but was so front-loaded that it saw much more use).

    As far as linear damage reduction effects go, there are also linear damage increase effects, so that argument depends entirely on the metagame (i.e. which effects are most common).

    Why is it generally accepted that low standard-deviation is better? Because it favors the better player, and better players tend to get listened to. But if I were the underdog, I'd rather crank the standard-deviation up as high as possible. When I see an unfavorable matchup, my first instinct is to look for high-risk strategies.

    As for the block % vs. # of attacks issue.... Both you guys are all over the map on that one. Each of you will say one thing that is true, then another that is crazy-talk.

    The best you can say is that the attacker can predict what his own skills use best (slow or fast attack rate) and what the game environment will have in it, and plan accordingly.

    In either case, attack rate is so much less important in GW than the specific skills you are looking to get access to.

    And as far as education, give it a rest! The 11 year old kid at the local game shop who was telling his older brother what his chances of success were in the tabletop wargame they were playing is going to grow up to be better at these types of analyses than anyone who has posted here, even if he majors in belly-dancing!

  3. #23
    I think its a very tough explanation for this but i have to mention the amount of time put in it and the refined info so very good guys

  4. #24
    Great Post to the OP.

    though reading through the rest of them.....

    just saying that you're right, without giving proven evidence is just simply not intelligent, because it transforms into not the right answer but to your opinion.

    and an opinion on a forum board is worth absolutely nothing to everyone at any given time, and only worth to the ones that keep the minds open.

    OmInOuS NeCrOsIs could have posted the math to back up his claims and not stating that he was just right.

  5. #25
    i did in the beginning... and then a few other people posted math that was alot easier to understand then mine
    i would make the worst teacher ever... the only person that would understand me is myself

  6. #26

    Maths again

    I can't believe the moderator allowed so many posts over an argument. He should cut it to a different threat and maybe pin it.

    Anyhow, since there are so many expert mathematic persons on this thread, I wish (but is doubtful) that someone has actually read to this point and will help me.

    +Pips = [(Crit Chance % x Energy Bonus) / Dagger Speed] / 0.33

    Where:

    * Pips (also called “ticks”) is the energy per second regen rate from your crits translated into energy par pips (each pip is +0.33 regen per second)
    * Crit Chance is the decimal value of your total percentage crit chance
    * Energy Bonus is the total stacked energy bonus per crit from Critical Strikes and Critical Eye


    Also remember that you must ADD this “+Pips” value to your basic 4 pips that you get from your inherent energy regen plus the regen bonuses on your assassin armor.

    Some examples:

    * +4.4 Pips (1.44 energy per second) for 12 ranks in Dagger Mastery, 13 ranks in Critical Strikes and Critical Eye running full time during battle (([0.35 x 4] / 1.07) / 0.33). The 12 ranks of Dagger Mastery gives you 1.07 dagger speed and a 16% base crit chance. The 13 ranks in Critical Strikes gives you 3 energy bonus and another 13% crit chance. The Critical Eye gives you 1 energy bonus (stackable), plus another 6% crit chance (stackable). Your total crit chance is therefore 35% and your total energy bonus is therefore 4. Total Pips = 8.4 when auto-attacking.
    My calculation (i know i'm just missing something):
    .35 x 4 = 1.400
    1.400 / 1.07 = 1.308
    1.308 / .33 = 3.965 <-- i'm not getting 4.4?

    Please help and thanks
    Tjorriemorrie

  7. #27
    I have a question as well - have we confirmed that the random dual strike attack is considered 2 seperate attacks (Ie while under strength of honour would the SOH bonus be added twice)?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Deurmekaar
    I can't believe the moderator allowed so many posts over an argument. He should cut it to a different threat and maybe pin it.

    Anyhow, since there are so many expert mathematic persons on this thread, I wish (but is doubtful) that someone has actually read to this point and will help me.



    My calculation (i know i'm just missing something):
    .35 x 4 = 1.400
    1.400 / 1.07 = 1.308
    1.308 / .33 = 3.965 <-- i'm not getting 4.4?

    Please help and thanks
    Tjorriemorrie
    You sir, are correct! That is a typo/cut-n-paste goof from earlier versions of the FAQ. If/when I get around to making a v5 of this FAQ, I'll correct that goof.

    BTW, I'm waiting for the dust to settle on the assassin class before doing V5. There are still a few unanswered questions about mechanics, but most importantly, there are some balance issues on the PvE side that IMO currently make the 'sin a fairly weak/annoying class for PvE play that I'm hoping the devs correct soon. If/when they do, it will affect some of the details in the Dagger FAQ, I'm sure.

    Meanwhile keep the bugs and questions coming!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Parker Bsb
    I have a question as well - have we confirmed that the random dual strike attack is considered 2 seperate attacks (Ie while under strength of honour would the SOH bonus be added twice)?
    It counts as two separate attacks.
    Hahnsoo's Collectors Guide (ver 0.13) and Ranger Guide (ver 0.60), updated for Factions
    Old Guides (Prophecies only): Mesmer Guide, Skills Guide
    "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." -G. K. Chesterton

  10. #30
    Here's a miscalculation that needs adjustment:

    Dagger Speed = base speed / [1 + (Attribute x .02)]

    Some examples, assuming a base speed of 1.33:
    9 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 1.13 seconds per attack (1.33 / 1.18)
    12 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 1.07 seconds per attack (1.33 / 1.24)
    16 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 1.00 seconds per attack (1.33 / 1.32)
    The equation should be:

    Dagger Speed = base speed - [base speed * (Attribute x .02)]
    That makes the numbers read as:

    9 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 1.09 seconds per attack
    12 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 1.01 seconds per attack
    16 ranks in Dagger Mastery = 0.90 seconds per attack
    Look at it this way... If a person running takes 12 minutes to get from point A to Point B on Monday, let's say he goes 25% faster on Tuesday. If he goes 25% faster, we know 3 is 25% of 12 (.25*12), so he makes the trip on Tuesday in 12-3= 9 minutes. As one equation it's 12-(12*.25)= 9. Trying this as 12/1.25 (your equation above) would yield an answer of 9.6 minutes, which is obviously incorrect.

    With double strikes, we have a 24% chance at L12. The attack speed is 1.33, so with a 24% modifier it should read 1.33-(1.33*.24)= 1.01. The other calculations fall in place in the same way.

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