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  1. #71
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    Quintus Antonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornerstone
    To be Evil is not to be insane. To be Insane is not to be evil. There are many insane people who arenít evil, and many evil people who arenít insane. Evil, in its origins is a religious term. Evil is described as the opposite of divinity, of holiness. Sin is considered evil, because Sin is the opposite of God. Was Adam and Eve insane when they sinned? Are you insane when you sin? With that out of the way...
    Actually, yes. Since you are applying Christian religious views here, I will respond with Christian teachings. The Bible teaches that God is a god of not only holiness (love, mercy, etc) but also a god of order. In sinning, you not only violate this order but also go against the basic priniciples of order on which God founded the universe. The opposite of order is obviously chaos, and sin induces this chaos. That is what happened to Adam and Eve in committing the original sin in the Garden of Eden. By allowing sin into the world that God had originally created without sin, they had allowed chaos in, and chaos is insanity.

    In fact, sin is described as a sickness of the soul. The word insane, when broken down into its Latin origins means in- or not, and sanus healthy.

    To go against the order of God, and more importantly, to go against something omnipotent, would be considered insanity in its truest form.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cornerstone
    The fact were trying to get across is that the story didnít make him go insane until just before he killed the emperor, infact he wasnít evil at all until he killed the emperor. In the Factions prima guide the reason why shiro was being promoted was because he rescued the Emperor's son from the Am Fah. Now is Shiro Tagachi was really Evil he could have killed the emperor's son and claimed he got there too late to save him. And when the Fortuneteller dropped the bombshell Shiro Looked shocked and disbelieved at that fact. He "Liked the Emperor" so much that when he heard this blasphemy in a rage of passion he slew the fortuneteller. I would have had the same response if i was told that someone i respected and trusted was going to kill me. But the simple fact he liked emperor means he couldnít have been evil or plotting to kill the emperor before. This totally contradicts the prima guide, factions manual, the trailer, how Shiro acted out side of cut screens, and how he could have done what he did to get back to the mortal realm. And thatís why we need the change.
    I have to agree with the insanity of Shiro theory. Not only by his actions, but by the very creatures created by them. They are morphologically and biologically twisted beyond scientific comprehension. HP Lovecraft, the master of horror insanity often used this kind of mutation of the body to represent the monsters a person began to see as he was driven to madness. Shiro, like many have already said, is madness personified.

    Think of the Elder Scrolls series' Daedra Lord Sheogorath, only with two swords and no pocketwatch.
    |||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||

  2. #72

    I like it

    Quote Originally Posted by Cornerstone
    And thatís why we need the change.
    Actually, IMO, we don't "need" a change. If anything, I think the Guide has to be changed. What the in game story suggests is that, instead of being an "evil guy who wants to rule the world", Shiro was just a common man, who took a bad decision in his life, and got an eternity to grow insane thanks to it.

    The fact he did not want to kill the Emperor, that it was not part of a deep plot to make him the most powerful sorcerer in the world, and the fact he acted on impulse, make him a human character, in my opinion. I disagree completely with the guide, but other than it, both the trailer and the in game cinematic hint to the same direction - Shiro did what he thought he had to do. His fear of death was so big he killed the Emperor, only to not only die, but to be turned into an Envoy, constantly taking people through what he feared so much. No surprise that he grew insane, as we see in game, or that his plot, the storyline of the game, is just his quest to become mortal again - losing much of his power in the process, but finally getting rid of his fears.

    It makes the character less one dimentional, it explains why he did what he did in the game, and it makes even for a plot twist. I definitely think it doesn't need to be changed.

    Erasculio

  3. #73
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    I don't think the guide needs changed, or anything that says Shiro is "evil". The Manuscripts and guides are written from the majority point of view on a character. To most people in Cantha, Shiro is in fact the devil, and killing an emperor would be more than enough to be considered evil. To anyone becoming aquainted with the story of Cantha (as we are), you would be told that Shiro was evil. You have to take that into consideration.
    |||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||

  4. #74
    I'm wielding the Spear of Bitter Mercy and a Gambolpuddy!

    I'd like to say that Raymond E. Fiest is a fiction writer and that to say "evil is madness" is not absolute. Many people have opinions, and I respect that. Though I cannot comprehend any sane reason as to why a man would keep a child in a cage for over 14 years (To name an example I heard on the news a few years ago.)

    Forgive me, but wasn't it yourself (Cornerstone) who posted the Guide Book's explanation on why Shiro killed the Emperor? Something about how Shiro studied forbidden lore, gained tremendous power, and it eventually corrupted him?

    Are you saying that that discription is how it should be? And the cutscenes are contridictory to this?

    Ah, I think I just answered my own questions.

  5. #75

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Transcendent Clarity
    NOW!!!!, this is the real question y was the assassin running to kill shiro?(even though she didnt)How could have she known about the emperor? Or maybe that Oracle's prediction was right, maybe the emperor wanted to kill shiro and sent the assassin.
    uh if u talk to visu she tells u she saw shiros face and warped to him just not before he killed the emporer

  6. #76
    I think Shiro became insane/evil after he died, that's why he wants to become mortal again. But, what confuses me is, why is shiro an envoy?

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Zayren
    why is shiro an envoy?
    His Sin's, Each Envoy has Done some Greater Sins (Like Shiro killed the Emperor )

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow the hero
    His Sin's, Each Envoy has Done some Greater Sins (Like Shiro killed the Emperor )
    Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me!

  9. #79

    Nice

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow the hero
    His Sin's, Each Envoy has Done some Greater Sins (Like Shiro killed the Emperor )
    Where did you find that information?

    I'm not doubting you (quite the opposite, that makes perfect sense and it's a cool idea), but I have the feeling there's an extra source of lore about Factions that I haven't seen yet, so I'm wondering what is it.

    Erasculio

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Erasculio
    Where did you find that information?

    I'm not doubting you (quite the opposite, that makes perfect sense and it's a cool idea), but I have the feeling there's an extra source of lore about Factions that I haven't seen yet, so I'm wondering what is it.
    Quote Originally Posted by From the official guidebook
    "Upon his [Shiro's] death, the Envoys - the immortal beings tasked by the Oracle of the Mists with ferrying souls to the afterlife - called him to join their ranks, and he refused. For two centuries these Envoys, themselves once living beings of great wickedness who serve the Oracle as penace for their mortal crimes, have sought to bring Shiro into their fold."
    http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=401366 Long Chat About the Envoys

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