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  1. #71
    I have read many posts in this thread, although not all, I see many interesting points, some of which could actually be implemented. I was once a PvE only player, after about 4 months of playing, I gradually migrated myself into PvP, my first HA experience? horrible, made me want to quit.

    But I stuck with it, grinded myself out of rank 0-2 hell, took me almost 3 months, but i did it, through listening carefully and actually taking the time to learn, I made many high ranked friends, some of whom today are quite famous in HA.

    Today, after about 6 months from which I first stepped into HA, i am now rank 9, if i have to label myself as either PvP or PvE i would have to go with PvP, but I don't see why many people thinks that PvP people do not play PvE.

    Some one complained about the elitism in PvP, I will attempt to explain it rationally from a PvP player's standpoint - when PvE players first go into PvE, they are unwilling to learn, thus getting defeated, but once they learn something, or defeats someone, many tend to get big headed. They will thus go into HA saying rank does not matter, I am as good as any rank 6,9,12 player when that simply isnt the case. And when the more experienced PvP players sees this sort of reaction, bursts of frustration will be expressed, as to the degree of the language, well that vaires with said PvP player's temper.

    An example would be: The first ever Mending Warrior goes into PvP, someone tells them, Mending is not good, the warrior does not listen and brag about being the last one alive on the team, the other people on their team develop stereotypes : Mending wammos=noobs. Then come the 2nd Mending warrior into PvP, patience starts to run out and flaming begins, you get the point... I was there, back when I was rank 2 I would blame everyone for not letting me in their rank 6 team when the problem was myself, that my skills simply wasn't good enough, I realize this looking back now, I probably will look back on my experience now 2 months later and laugh. It is all part of the learning process.

    People that complain about rank are one of two things, they are either hypocrites or they are stupid. For instance, if rank does not matter, then why would rank 0 players complain about not getting into rank 9 groups? Because all the other rank 0 players are horrible and they think they alone in the rank 0 crowd stand out? Wrong. And if rank DID matter, then why not simply play with people of your own rank, earn your way to higher ranked groups like everyone else that plays PvP.

    From my personal experience, TRULY good PvE players tend to be fast learners in PvP, they may lack the experience of a high ranked player, but anyone that is truly good at a game understands the mechanics of the game and will adapt quickly in another aspect.

    In conclusion, to address the question presented by the OP, How can PvP be made attractive to PvE players? Nothing, if a PvE player wants something more out of this game, aka being recognized when they enter an arena, or have people know who they are as well as knowing that they are one of the best players in the game, then said PvE player will pick up PvP. Those that give up aren't meant for PvP, for the learning curve in PvP, high end PvP anyways, is VERY steep. Those that will have paid their dues, learn the builds, better themselves of instinct, knowledge, experience and reflex will one day be known and respected in the PvP community as well.

    Hopefully my post is not too contraversial and start a flame fest.
    Last edited by Darknicrofia; 09-06-2006 at 08:04.

  2. #72
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    194
    One of the things I never understood is if you unlock a skill in PvP with a PvE character why canīt you use it for that character in PvP? You must create a specific PvP character to use the skill you just unlocked.

  3. #73
    PvP incoprorates this:

    a) uncontroled grouping (othet teams against it). PvE players usually tend to like controled enviroment - you know what to expect, you what who you have with you.

    b) dying/loosing. PvE players just dont like loosing and being defeated. PvE is ballanced around you having fair chance of winning all the battles. PvE is designed for player winning mission. In PvP you dont have fair chance of winning all battles, and you have to expect to loose.

    c) elitism. PvP is place where thinking your head can get you kicked from group: differ in one skill from desired build, and you are outa there. ask question, and you are outa there.

    d) grouping. its just too damn hard to get group. getting decent group is even harder. kudos for getting group that wants to experiment with some build.

    So, this all gives PvE player reason not to PvP. PvP is just too frustrating to cope with, and no 'bringing closes pvp and pve' will solve that. Some PvEs of course enter random arenas to kill some time or try luck in PvPvE mission, but thats it.

  4. #74
    GWOnline.Net Member Findariel's Avatar
    Posts

    4,558
    Quote Originally Posted by Grolubao
    One of the things I never understood is if you unlock a skill in PvP with a PvE character why canīt you use it for that character in PvP? You must create a specific PvP character to use the skill you just unlocked.
    No idea .. perhaps if there's a Balth. priest in the lvl10 arena's, people could use elites?
    But yes, the 1st time I did that I was VERY disppointed!!

  5. #75
    GWOnline.Net Member
    Posts

    1,740
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknicrofia
    I have read many posts in this thread, although not all, I see many interesting points, some of which could actually be implemented. I was once a PvE only player, after about 4 months of playing, I gradually migrated myself into PvP, my first HA experience? horrible, made me want to quit.

    But I stuck with it, grinded myself out of rank 0-2 hell, took me almost 3 months, but i did it, through listening carefully and actually taking the time to learn, I made many high ranked friends, some of whom today are quite famous in HA.

    Today, after about 6 months from which I first stepped into HA, i am now rank 9, if i have to label myself as either PvP or PvE i would have to go with PvP, but I don't see why many people thinks that PvP people do not play PvE.

    Some one complained about the elitism in PvP, I will attempt to explain it rationally from a PvP player's standpoint - when PvE players first go into PvE, they are unwilling to learn, thus getting defeated, but once they learn something, or defeats someone, many tend to get big headed. They will thus go into HA saying rank does not matter, I am as good as any rank 6,9,12 player when that simply isnt the case. And when the more experienced PvP players sees this sort of reaction, bursts of frustration will be expressed, as to the degree of the language, well that vaires with said PvP player's temper.

    An example would be: The first ever Mending Warrior goes into PvP, someone tells them, Mending is not good, the warrior does not listen and brag about being the last one alive on the team, the other people on their team develop stereotypes : Mending wammos=noobs. Then come the 2nd Mending warrior into PvP, patience starts to run out and flaming begins, you get the point... I was there, back when I was rank 2 I would blame everyone for not letting me in their rank 6 team when the problem was myself, that my skills simply wasn't good enough, I realize this looking back now, I probably will look back on my experience now 2 months later and laugh. It is all part of the learning process.

    People that complain about rank are one of two things, they are either hypocrites or they are stupid. For instance, if rank does not matter, then why would rank 0 players complain about not getting into rank 9 groups? Because all the other rank 0 players are horrible and they think they alone in the rank 0 crowd stand out? Wrong. And if rank DID matter, then why not simply play with people of your own rank, earn your way to higher ranked groups like everyone else that plays PvP.

    From my personal experience, TRULY good PvE players tend to be fast learners in PvP, they may lack the experience of a high ranked player, but anyone that is truly good at a game understands the mechanics of the game and will adapt quickly in another aspect.

    In conclusion, to address the question presented by the OP, How can PvP be made attractive to PvE players? Nothing, if a PvE player wants something more out of this game, aka being recognized when they enter an arena, or have people know who they are as well as knowing that they are one of the best players in the game, then said PvE player will pick up PvP. Those that give up aren't meant for PvP, for the learning curve in PvP, high end PvP anyways, is VERY steep. Those that will have paid their dues, learn the builds, better themselves of instinct, knowledge, experience and reflex will one day be known and respected in the PvP community as well.

    Hopefully my post is not too contraversial and start a flame fest.
    nice post, he is very right. Rank griefers care about rank because there are worse things in this world then a r3 noob and that is a r0 noob straight from pve. Simple, if your doing a mission in pve do you want someone in your group that doesn't know what they are doing? No. Obviousely you don't want that person in your group but you manage to get him anyway. Rank for a pvp'er, in ha anyway, is a shield. A way to protect the guy who has been playing ha for 6-9 months from the guy who just started ha 1 day ago. Those type of people don't like helping other people and they should be left alone. What you do is Team Areana FIRST for a LONG time before you enter ha and when you do enter ha you go in with a FRIEND, because pvp learning curve is steep and many people don't bother to climb up the hill. And for those who do climb up that hill and think they are on a mountain(r3-12), they don't feel like looking at the people down on the mountain and helping them up. For those people who climbed that hill(still talking about pvp) and still think that they are on a HILL, FIND these people make FRIENDS with these people and LEARN from them. A person who does ha with his friends and guildies will teach you more about ha then any r12 because the r12 is on his mountain/

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuzzman
    nice post, he is very right. Rank griefers care about rank because there are worse things in this world then a r3 noob and that is a r0 noob straight from pve. Simple, if your doing a mission in pve do you want someone in your group that doesn't know what they are doing? No. Obviousely you don't want that person in your group but you manage to get him anyway. Rank for a pvp'er, in ha anyway, is a shield. A way to protect the guy who has been playing ha for 6-9 months from the guy who just started ha 1 day ago. Those type of people don't like helping other people and they should be left alone. What you do is Team Areana FIRST for a LONG time before you enter ha and when you do enter ha you go in with a FRIEND, because pvp learning curve is steep and many people don't bother to climb up the hill. And for those who do climb up that hill and think they are on a mountain(r3-12), they don't feel like looking at the people down on the mountain and helping them up. For those people who climbed that hill(still talking about pvp) and still think that they are on a HILL, FIND these people make FRIENDS with these people and LEARN from them. A person who does ha with his friends and guildies will teach you more about ha then any r12 because the r12 is on his mountain/

    Such is human nature, when we struggle we give the world grief because it gives us nothing to best our roadblocks, but once we levels the blocks, we do not care to look back and see if anyone else might need a hand getting through.

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Grolubao
    One of the things I never understood is if you unlock a skill in PvP with a PvE character why canīt you use it for that character in PvP? You must create a specific PvP character to use the skill you just unlocked.
    God gave donkeys tails to ward off flies, but most of them would rather have no flies and no tail.

    I'd rather not be able to get any benefit in PvP from doing PvE, if the rate of faction unlocks was at all sufficient.

  8. #78
    GWOnline.Net Member nohooiam's Avatar
    Posts

    139
    at this point of the game, pvp is very restrictive to new players. unless these new players can over come these challenges, they will eventually be discouraged from pvp.

    the problem is that these challenges are inherent to the nature of pvp, and i dont see a solution to remove some of these roadblocks.

    one of the biggest problems is group organization. new comers will typically look to HA as their starting point for pvp (i'm guessing because HA provides a reward). while HA is the pinnacle of pug pvp, this is also its biggest fallibility. fotms, rank discrimination, and lack of play ability are all apparent here due to its pug-ish nature, contrary to the more organized form of gvg. any group with decent organization is guarenteed to roll a pug team, but new comers do not have the network to join the well organized teams.

    at this point, the grind to a high rank to join ranked teams has lost all meaning, since coordination is now the determining factor for the success of an HA group. sadly, new comers to pvp still cling onto the unrealistic hope of achieving a higher rank to join more successful groups.

    the successful pvpers eventually realized that they had to make their own way to break this cycle. pvp rewards initiative, and those with any are relatively few. players will either break the cycle, or continually get stuck in it. new comers are ignorant to this situation, and as such will feel that pvp is restrictive.
    Last edited by nohooiam; 09-06-2006 at 16:21.

  9. #79
    You could remove a majority of the problems PvEers have with PvP by not letting the PvPers play. :D

  10. #80
    GWOnline.Net Member Damcyan's Avatar
    Posts

    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tralus
    Other comments aside, if you can't be courteous enough to bring a level 20 character, why should I be courteous enough to stay ?
    At the time, I didn't know non-level 20 weren't "allowed" in the Random Arena. I couldn't get into the Shiverpeaks anymore (level 18), so the only place I could see to go was the Random Arena. This I why I suggested that there be another arena to cater to those above level 15, but below level 20.

    To be honest, you don't lose anything for trying to fight even if the team isn't all level 20s, the game is just for fun after all, who knows, with a bit of luck you might just pull off a victory! The worse that will happen is the battle will be lost quickly and you can jump back in to another random team, no big deal.

    cheers,
    Damcyan
    Last edited by Damcyan; 12-06-2006 at 20:15.

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