I originally posted this in the Lore Lounge...
But seeing as there was no former thread on this matter, I thought I would make one about it. (This is my first fully compiled topic in the Lore Forum so bear with me if its poorly written or put together )I wasn't sure where to post this, but I was thinking about the Luxon and Kurzick refugees that came to Kryta prior to the release of Factions. The Kurzicks that fled to Kryta had the last name Ulrikar, but the only five Kurzick Houses are Vasburg, Durheim, Lutgardis, Brauer, and of course zu Heltzer. I was under the impression that the only Kurzicks that exist are descendants of one of these five families.
Does this mean that there was in fact six Kurzick houses? Did the Ulrikar's all die out with the exception of Meika, who fell in love with Dalos Ekarus (Luxon)? Or did the writers change the names of the houses at the last minute? Or is there another reason?
History Of The Settlements:
At the moment we know that, prior to Tyrians being allowed passage to Cantha and vice versa, that two new settlements of refugees came to Kryta from the continent of Cantha. These were the Luxons and the Kurzicks.
Tyrians were first asked to clear the settlement areas for the arriving settlements, prior to them reaching Tyria. The Kurzicks' area of choice in Nebo Terrace was swarming with undead, however through the help of some Tyrian explorers, the undead were purged from the area around the statue of Dwayna in Nebo Terrace. Ettins and Caromi Tengu were also chased from the Luxons' specified area, allowing them to settle in the North Kryta Province.
The Kurzicks travelled to Tyria via Captain Yimuru's ship, the Wind Dancer. According to Captain Yimuru, Kurzicks who had coin had begun a mass exodus of Cantha to avoid the constant conflict with the Luxons. The Luxons also had a similar idea, and travelled to Tyria via Captain Xaomei's ship, the Flying Crane. They also wished to avoid the conflict.
Though they were both seeking to escape the chaotic battles between the Luxons and Kurzicks back in Cantha, seeing as both warring factions had fled to Kryta, hatred quickly grew between the two groups. However, one Kurzick and one Luxon put their past between them, and proceeded to fall in love. These were Meika Ulrikar and Dalos Ekarus.
Meika and Dalos ran to Lions Arch, hoping to gain help from the Tyrians at bringing about peace between the Kurzick and Luxon Settlements. These attempts at peace were later thwarted when the Kurzick and Luxon settlements waged war on each other. Tyrians could then assist one side in destroying the other.
From the horrific battles, depending on which side the Tyrians chose to aid, the other settlement would be wiped out, leaving nothing but their bones and the remains of their settlement. Meika and Dalos, at this time, were still in Lions Arch pleading for help. Soon after the Lionguard had to intervene, sending the remains of both settlements, with the exception of Dalos and Meika, back to Cantha. Dalos and Meika were allowed to stay as they wished to live happily together and become peaceful citizens of Kryta.
During the small time that the Kurzicks and Luxons were inhabiting the lands of Tyria, the Lionguard kept a close eye on the matter...
Notice Two...Attention fellow citizens of Tyria,
You have no doubt gazed with sorrow upon the scores of refugees displaced by the terrible conflict raging in the southern lands of Cantha. Were it not for the noble efforts of hired heroes, these poor souls would be spending another cold night in filthy gutters.
Mukesh the Merciless and his vile undead horde have been purged from the grounds of Nebo Terrace. The Kurzick homeless are pitching camp there as I speak. Likewise, the ettin thugs led by the notorious—and odiferous—Smuush Fatfist have been quashed, making possible the Luxon settlement being built in North Kryta Province.
By order of the White Mantle, I declare both Nebo Terrace and North Kryta Province fit for habitation and trade.
Notice Three...Attention fellow citizens of Tyria,
As our new friends from the southern continent of Cantha have begun settling into their homes, we have received countless reports of violence raging between the Luxon and Kurzick factions within North Kryta Province and Nebo Terrace.
These societies are longtime enemies, and it appears their war has followed them onto our lands. We ask all citizens of Kryta to report any crimes, acts of violence or cruelty, or other disruptive public displays instigated by members of either faction. In the meantime, the Lionguard will investigate a peaceful resolution to the bloodshed.
This last action of the Lionguard says that both settlements have been sent back to Kryta via separate ships, in order to avoid conflict during their passage back to Cantha, however it does not say how many of each settlement were sent home. This could be due to the fact that many perished in the battles between both factions during their stay in Kryta. Supposedly Baron Ulrikar and Seaguard Ekarus were to have died during one of the battles, though what became of the rest of each settlement is not entirely known.Fellow citizens of Tyria,
Due to growing violence between the Kurzick and Luxon refugees we have so graciously allowed to live in Kryta, we have been forced to take drastic measures to ensure your safety. We have purchased passage on separate ships to return the survivors from both groups to their homelands in Cantha until such time as they can learn to live in harmony. If they cannot do so there, they will not be given the opportunity to spread their strife here.
There will be two exceptions: Meika Ulrikar of the Kurzicks and Dalos Ekarus of the Luxons have requested that they be allowed to stay in Kryta and become citizens. After reviewing the situation, the Lionguard has granted this request—both shall be allowed to remain in Kryta as citizens of our land, being the only two (among many) who have found a way to stop fighting each other. Furthermore, they shall be granted property near the city of Lion’s Arch as a gift for their willingness to overcome the ancestral hatreds that so darken the minds of their people. Treat them well, people of Tyria; they may be strangers in many ways, but they have chosen peace and must be shown we of Tyria respect that decision.
This brings me to my point, though the remaining Kurzicks were sent back to Cantha, with the exception of Meika as she wished to live peacefully with Dalos in Kryta, Baron Ulrikar supposedly died during the "Attack The Kurzicks!" quest if players chose to aid the Luxon settlement. Baron Ulrikar may possibly have been the leader of the sixth forgotten Kurzick house.
What We Know Of The Kurzicks In Cantha:
We know there are definately a minimum of five Kurzick houses in Cantha, each with a leader, one of the five Gods as their patron, and each also having a patron Saint to their house. These are as follows;
Houze zu Heltzer
Leader: Count zu Heltzer
Patron God: Dwayna
Patron Saint: Saint Viktor
Leader: Baroness Attia Vasburg
Patron God: Balthazar
Patron Saint: Saint Anjeka
Leader: Duke Holtz Lutgardis
Patron God: Melandru
Patron Saint: Saint Melodie
Leader: Duchess Sandra Durheim
Patron God: Grenth
Patron Saint: Saint Ehren
Leader: Count Archek Brauer
Patron God: Lyssa
Patron Saint: Saint Perahta
This shows us that the leader of each Kurzick House has some form of rank, such as Count, Duke, Duchess, and Baroness. The Ulrikars leader, Baron Ulrikar, also had a rank, however nothing was ever mentioned of a Patron Saint or God.
Though some of the Kurzick collectors have last names different to those of the Noble Houses, such as Wilhelm Joseph in Brauer Academy or Jaun Stumi in House zu Heltzer, the only Kurzicks with a rank bestowed upon them are said to be of the nobility of the Kurzick nation. Therefore, as the Ulrikars leader had the rank of Baron bestowed on him, equal to the rank of Baroness Attia Vasburg of the Vasburg House, would this not mean that he is of the nobility? Therefore, this would mean that the Ulrikars are (or were) one of the Great Houses?
One problem with this is that there are only five Gods; Dwayna, Lyssa, Melandru, Grenth, and Balthazar. The Ulrikars would have had to worship the same god as another house, or some other unknown holy being.
Each house also has their own town/outpost situated somewhere in the Echovald Forest, these include; House zu Heltzer, Brauer Academy, Lutgardis Conservatory, Durheim Archives, and the Vasburg Armory, though the Vasburgs also built Saint Anejka's Shrine to worship the Patron Saint of their house. At this point in time, however, there is no sign of a town or an outpost that would have been dedicated to the Ulrikars, atleast that is shown on the Cantha map currently.
It is possible that the writers simply changed the name of one of the Great Houses after the Kurzick Settlement was removed from Tyria prior to release, or the Ulrikars died out during the battles in Kryta with the exception of Meika. It could also be possible that the Ulrikars, after fleeing the Echovald Forest to avoid conflict with the Luxons, did not return there, and found another place to call home and live in obscurity. There may also be another explanation which I have simply overlooked. The mystery is, what actually happened to the Ulrikars after being banished from Kryta? Are there any hidden bits of information eluding to their location? Or what became of them after returning to Cantha?
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07-07-2006, 23:36 #1
[Canthan Lore] The Ulrikars - Forgotten Kurzick House?
08-07-2006, 00:16 #2
Great article, especially for a first thread! I hope to continue to see such good contributions to the Lore Forum by you in the future, Blobulator.
Well, there is another possibility. Within "House" systems like those of the Kurzicks, there are often "lesser" houses that are, for lack of a better term, vassal houses. They exist as entites but are aligned with one of the Great Houses. It is possible that the house in question falls into this category, as it does not appear that it was a very large house.
Of course, there is yet another possibility. Upon fleeing their homeland, Ulrikar, who was possibly already a noble in one of the known houses, took it upon himself to create and become the patriarch of a new house. After all, he was in Kryta, where the Kurzick houses had no influence. Perhaps he was looking to create a new house and gain power, one day being recognized as an independant body like the zu Heltzers for instance.
Either seems very likely. Given that the Kurzicks were refugees and set up camp near the shrine of Dwayna, I'd say we can assume that the new house's patron would have been Dwayna. After all she is the goddess of mercy and healing, and the Kurzicks would have needed both to survive as refugees in a foreign land with enemies all around.|||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||
08-07-2006, 07:51 #3Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius
However, when the Luxons managed to kill Baron Ulrikar, the remaining Kurzicks of the Ulrikar settlement in Kryta may have simply retreated back to the Echovald Forest and disbanded, falling into obscurity among the other Kurzicks, rather than trying to rebuild the small empire that Baron Ulrikar had briefly created. This could be largely attributed to the fact that Meika had abandoned the settlement to be with Dalos, and seeing as she was Baron Ulrikar's daughter, she would have most probably been the one of take over should he pass away.
08-07-2006, 07:59 #4
The thing that bugs me about the Kurzick houses is the titles of the nobility. I mean, House zu Heltzer is led by a "mere" count, who should be outranked by the Duke of Lutgardis, and/or the Duchess of Durheim. Of course, that's Earthly feudalism for you, and not necessarily applicable to the world of Tyria, but nitpick-worthy, nonetheless.
08-07-2006, 08:27 #5
I think the rankings are more just titles, the house with the most power is supposed to be determined by those battle outside Brauer Academy if I remember correctly. The Kurzicks hold fights amongst themselves to see which house will be the most dominant from time to time. That house then assumes control. I'd have to look up the repeatable quest outside Brauer for more information.
08-07-2006, 10:00 #6Originally Posted by Blobulator
On another matter, I would like to know how the titles are granted. The fact they exist shows that at some point, the Kurzicks must have been united as one, with a single leader who can dispense such titles, most likely a King. The current Kurzicks, however, are split and divided with no clear leader, just an agreement between Houses, that can often break down into conflict (see Amatz basin description). What caused the split, and what is the requirements for a House?
08-07-2006, 13:01 #7
Sorry about that error, I spoke about the "Attack The Kurzicks!" quest in the original post, didn't specify in the new post though.
As for giving titles, it could possibly be the Redemptors. As the vassal nation of the Kurzicks is a church-state, and the Redemptors are the "spiritual guiders" that provide leadership to the Council Of Nobles. Since the Kurzicks are very religious and believe anything and everything is a sign, almost all large-scale decisions effecting the direction of the Kurzick nation are shown to the Redemptors before going ahead with it.
This may not be entirely correct but it could be assumed that the Redemptors were the original governing body before the Kurzicks detatched themselves from the Canthan Empire after the Jade Wind, when the rift between the Luxons and Kurzicks began, as well as the inner conflict between houses. The Redemptors may have saught guidance from the Gods, which is where they supposedly recieve their guidance, and apparently are able to converse with the Gods - (Gods > Redemptors > Council Of Nobles > The Rest Of The Houses). The Redemptors, through some guidance of the Gods, may have chosen to elect leaders from each house in order to help end some of the conflict, the Redemptors then bestowing their titles in the name of the Gods, forming some sort of a democracy among the houses (Even if House zu Heltzer eventually rose to obtain more politcal power).
The zu Heltzers may have risen to power through battles with the other houses, primarily the Vasburgs, as shown in the Duel Of The Houses quest which states that bloody battles would ensue between houses to resolve disputes. The zu Heltzers may have become the strongest house politically, through their skill in craftsmenship and magic, to beat the pure brawn and physical power of the Vasburgs.
As for the Ulrikars fitting into all this, it is possible that during the Exodus to Kryta when fleeing the conflict with the Kurzicks, a Redemptor gave Barin Ulrikar his title to possibly start a new house in Kryta and establish some power there, or he simply gave himself this title as no Redemptors were evident in Kryta.
This is just pure theory of course, it may not be fully accurate.
08-07-2006, 17:43 #8
Blobulator, you seem to know a lot about the Kurzicks. If you would like to write a TAOS sponsored research paper into Kurzick culture sometime, I know it would be a valuable addition to this forum.
I have a question. I've heard people saying that Lord Victo was a Kurzick, yet my research shows that he was the leader of the Orrian Army, and is buried in the Tombs. So, can someone explain where the idea of Lord Victo being a Kurzick came from?
I know you may be wondering why I'm asking such an off-topic question, but I'll make it clear once someone can shed some insight onto my inquiry.|||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||
08-07-2006, 22:46 #9Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius
Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius
However, it is possible that the Orrians, or atleast Lord Victo, were descendants of the Kurzicks, seeing as the Kurzicks had already seceded from the Canthan Empire before the first signs of humans on Tyria. It could be a similar scenario to the Luxons and the Margonites, though it may have just been Lord Victo that was a Kurzick descendant, not necessarily the entire Orrian population such as the Margonites were. There is no solid evidence to back up this theory though, other than timelines. Just speculation if it is actually known that Lord Victo was a Kurzick.
EDIT To Earlier Post: "This may not be entirely correct but it could be assumed that the Redemptors were the original governing body before the Kurzicks detatched themselves from the Canthan Empire after the Jade Wind, when the rift between the Luxons and Kurzicks began, as well as the inner conflict between houses."
The Redemptors may have taken over once they seceded the Canthan Empire, though this was still before the Jade Wind, and the Luxons and Kurzicks hatred was not as strong. It's possible that the Redemptors took on the role of leadership from the moment the Kurzicks became a vassal nation, and continued to after the Jade Wind.
There may have been a mutual agreement among all Kurzicks to elect these Redemptors, or it may have been a similar thing to the Saul D'Alessio Scenario, seeing as the Redemptors are said to be able to converse with the Gods. One Kurzick may have stumbled upon a way to make contact with the Gods and spread this information throughout the Kurzick nation. The Kurzicks, being extremely religious and thinking everything as a sign, may have made this Redemptor their new leader, and in turn either the head Redemptor or the Kurzicks elected new Redemptors, which in turn later on gave the head of each of the five houses their titles, whether the head of these houses was elected by the Redemptors or those of the house.
Last edited by Blobulator; 08-07-2006 at 22:56. Reason: Earlier Post
08-07-2006, 23:16 #10
A few clicks on the map might give some insight :P
A click on HzH:
"One of the oldest and largest of the Kurzick Houses, the zu Heltzers can trace their lineage to Saint Viktor and well beyond, a fact that they waste no opportunity to mention to newcomers."
Might it be that HzH, who had always been one of the "tops" has their position reinforced by the death of Shiro?
A click on Lutgardis Conservatory:
"Previously known as Cypress Hollow, the Lutgardis House decided to build its cathedral and homes here after House founder, Lord Rolf Lutgardis, came to this spot seeking guidance from the gods."
Sounds to me like there is first a last name, then a physical "house".