Annoyed with the people who keep complaining how Kurzick side is impossible, and how in 99% battles they lose, i decided to attempt to write this guide. Now, honestly speaking, i play Luxon side most of the time, but not because it's easier. I don't like farming too much, even though i do it here and there. Thus, winning fast (5-10 min) on Luxon side is my source of both fun but also of money. On Kurzick side, you need to wait 20min to get same faction you can get on Luxon side for 5min of gameplay. This needs to be balanced, and hopefully ANet will slightly increase the faction Kurzick side gets for winning. Until that happens, i don't see myself playing Kurzick side more than Luxon, at least until i get enough money.
First of all please understand this guide isnt perfect. It's limited by my knowledge of the matter. It is also limited by the fact that this is pvp arena, with the dynamic aspect it brings. Look at it more as a scetch which i hope others will perfect more and more.
Seconds of all, im not trying to prove here that sides are balanced. They are not. When two groups of average pvers face each other, Luxon side will win. But this guide isnt for pvers anyway. It's for those who always strive to improve their pvp skills. It's not for those who keep whinning how Luxon side is easier, and how all's hopeless. I don't like whinning. I prefer being constructive instead and contribute to a problem if anyhow possible.
Third, if there's a leecher in your team, just rage-quit. Yes yes, you can win with leecher, but it's not worth the risk, and it's not worth giving the guy full faction. Im saddened with ANets indifference towards leechers, and how Gaile even says to us not to bother reporting em because nothing will happen (which is true because i tried). I myself won't bother much with Kurzick side until Anet does something with leechers. It's better to exploit it; play as Luxon and win in 5min every time because Kurzicks had 1-2+ leechers. Oh joy :) However, if you're one of those masochistic people, then read further :P
Fourth - if there are people who don't know how to play the map, give them a kind advice. If there are still people who repeatedly keep messing up because they are too stuborn - ragequit. Yes that's right, it's a team game. No team, no win. Not even on Luxon side can you afford to have problematic kids, and trust me you can afford it even less on Kurzick side. Remember that this is a military. If someone has authority problem, he shouldnt pvp. He can use henchies and do pve missions, but if you have authority problem dont pvp. It's not for you. Im not saying that you should suck up insults, but if your ego is too sensitive to take well-meant constructive criticism, dont play pvp. Dunnot under any circumstances type lines such as "dont tell me how to play this game". A great player will always like hints, because they improve his knowledge and skill. That's how you learn to play this game. When you see someone saying "dont tell me how to play this game", you're dealing with a noob who will always stay noob. Dont waste time bothering with him, just ragequit.
Mission objective: protect Architect for 20min.
Keep this in mind all the time. Your goal is NOT to kill as many Luxon players as possible. If you want to have fun with that, this is not the arena for you. Try Random Arena.
1) Fortifying - Bond Monks
2) Stalling - Ritual Lords with defensive spirits, Stance Tanks and alike
3) Disruption - Rangers and Mesmers with turtle interrupts
4) Haste - speed boosts on warriors, rangers etc
Before you enter the mission, you need to have a build made for a specific goal. DUNNOT bring a random build. Every skill down to the last needs to have exact purpose on this map. When you enter the Fort, you need to know exactly what you're going to do, from the very beginning. Are you amber runner? Are you protecting inside the fort? There are way too many warriors who join in, and then idle inside the Fort. The excuses such as "sorry lag.." are irrelevant. If you have such a lag that it makes the map properly unplayable, why join and spoil the mission for others?
Last but not the least - team coordination. If you're covering 1 gate, let your team know so they can cover the other gate. Are both gates covered? Let everyone know they should focus on running amber. Is there EoE around, but you're caster and can't kill it as fast with a wand? Call the target, several times if needed. Draw a circle around it on minimap. Sometimes it's difficult to find the spirit in the chaos of the battle. Make it easier for your team.
Running Amber and controlling mines
Without running amber, winning is nearly impossible (unless ur lucky to have 2 bond monks and no luxon with enchant removal).
As soon as the battle starts, go through one of the portals (with few others hopefully), get the mine, and run amber back to the Gatekeeper. Rinse repeat. That's the basic :) Now for the fun parts. Use mines to stall. If your build can solo mine guardians, keep reconquering them. Just pls dont bother with this if you're a ranger with longbow who _can_ solo mines, but it takes him 5 min to do so. There are enough of builds who can kill mine guardians very fast, so allow them to do it. It's not needed to have both mines, you only need one to run amber. However, as said earlier, if you run a specific fun build to smack NPCs at the mine, that's ok.
Use run boosts. If you're warrior or assassin, or even a ranger, it's not a problem to take run skill.
If you're lucky to have noob Luxons, this is one of the easiest ways to win as Kurzick. Your intention is to draw as many luxons (or even luxon warriors) to you, and then let them chase you. Remember, you dont need to kill them. Each minute they spend chasing you, is minute they are not conquering the fort. It doesnt matter if you die, but how much time you steal. Just make sure that you do more benefit than drawback. It doesnt pay off much to keep 1 luxon busy. It's a waste. Keeping 2+ is good.
Aside of running, the other types of fighting outside include pure stalling. Stance tanks will take a while to go down in most cases. Again, doesnt matter if you die, but how long you survive. Remember all those infamous WMo's from Random Arena? Well, they actually have a purpose here :)
Touch rangers are good for this.
To kill Orange and Purple Commanders or not to kill? I'm not sure if i know the answer. I'd say it depends on the situation. If your team has enough anti-turtle skills, this isnt needed. If you have some fun solo build which can kill NPCs fast, you can do this along with conquering mines. If nothing else, killing Commanders will make more chaos on Luxon side. Watch out for invasion forces. If there are a lot of Luxons in the fort, and both turtles alive, it's better to suicide, spawn inside, and kill invaders who breached in. There is really no point in soloing people outside while Gunther is getting creamed.
The biggest mistake that you can do is helping others to kill Commanders, or non-primary mine points. Look, let me make this clear. If i use solo build which can take out these points alone, the last thing i need is you to waste time coming all the way down here, and "help" me kill them. Even after i repeat it 10x, some people still dont get it. By "helping" me, you're actually hurting the whole team. So, next time you see someone soloing these points, move along. If he cant kill them, or cant kill fast enough, that's his problem.
Always be aware of the movement of the enemy. You need to be at the right place at the right time. Too many Luxons on purple gate? It really doesnt make much sense to try and conquer purple mine. Switch over.
Avoid turtles. While you're outside you are very vulnerable to turtle fire. They have good range and do a lot of dmg.
Monk should bond 1 NPC on the outer gate. If lucky and no one on Luxon side can counter enchants, the gate is probably safe for the duration of whole battle.
Protection Ritualist is 2nd most important class. While it cant fully protect the gate from getting breached, as bond monk can, Rt can greatly stall the invasion. You camp just a bit away from the wall edge, and spam spirits. Ritual Lord + Boon of Creation + Shelter + Union + Displacement + Signet of Creation (signet is awesome). This is the core. You can try with Recuperation, and you can also bring Symbiosis. If lucky to have prot monk, this helps greatly in endgame.
Interrupt ranger and mesmers can stall turtle progress, and do other effects.
EoE is your biggest enemy. Almost always it is placed on the outer side of the wall, left or right of the Green Gate. Always, always make EoE priority. Dont go on killing that turtle or enemy players if EoE is up. Get EoE. I cannot stress how important this is. Yes, i have myself lost games because of EoE, but only once because we were unlucky and it triggered too fast. All other times i've lost it because no one knew what EoE is, where is it, or simply bothered to kill it. Spirit Walk on assassin can work wonders, if you can afford that skill. If not, just babysit the ranger (or anyone else) who has EoE. Having interrupt of any kind is great. Mesmer, if any points in domination line, should have Unnatural Signet. It's worth it. Yes, it does kill fast enough no matter what some will say.
Just ignore the fairytales of how EoE is unfair and overpowered. Instead, kill it. And kill it on time. Sure, if you leave it there for 30+ sec you will most likely lose the battle. But then it's your fault anyhow. The same thing is with turtles.. yea sure they are powerful, but instead of whinning and being helpless, counter it. A turtle is NPC, it has AI. Exploit it.
At times of crises, Symbiosis + prot spells works wonders. Unfortunately, it requires 2 players; a prot monk, and someone with the spirit. But it can work great. Still, i would not rely on this, and it's always best to plan on not having Luxons get this far.
Monk. Any monk is great. Bonder monk is the best, because it only has one weakness but most of the time it's totally worth it.
Ritualist. Should have RLord and defensive spirits. The second choice is Khanei one who can solo mines, luxon warriors and others outside. Still, i'd rather have RLord one. Rt with offensive spirits isnt good. Yes, i have played it. It's too vulnerable to turtle fire. If you want to play this kind of Rt, they are awesome on Luxon side.
Warrior. Put run skill(s) and keep getting that amber. Or make stance tank and stall em outside. More time they waste killing u, closer to victory you are. Put one interrupt such as distracting blow.
Assassin. AoD works great, but im not expert in assassin so maybe someone else could give more input. Aspenwood is great for assassins who know how to play. Lots of solo people whom you can jump and smack before they know what hit them. Pick those who do the most dmg. If you can take out minion master, do it. Take out fire ele. Take out monk. Dont bother soloing people just for the sake of soloing. Always think how you can contribute the most. It's not good to kill someone who just spawned, since when you kill him he'll spawn at the same place few sec later.
Ranger. Interrupts for turtle. Run skills for amber (or both of course). Touch rangers are great. I see a lot of rangers standing on the outer wall, shooting with longbow. I guess it works, but take the right skills.
Necromancer. Spiteful spirit ownz Luxon warriors. Especially when they are grouped around your gate NPCs. I would advise against MM if you're Kurzick. Turtles can smash minions. I think AoE degen such as Suffering works nicely too.
Elementalist. I honestly have no idea :) But considering the battles can be quite crowded, i'd go with AoE spells.
Mesmer. Degens, turtle interrupts.. all work. Perhaps even Crippling Anguish for turtles, but i have no experience with mesmer in Aspenwood so need more input here.
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19-07-2006, 14:38 #1
Kurzick guide to Fort Aspenwood (v0.9)
19-07-2006, 15:11 #2
Thank you. More ppl need to read this.
Also another older thread that covers some of the things is:
FA - strategy talk.
Some more advice:
be kind - say hello when you start - it shows manners and you see if the team is able to comunicate.
if there are ppl that dont move from the starting position - you ask if they will play, then tell that you will leave if they refuse to play. you can quote me - 'sorry but i have a rule that i leave if there are more than 2 afks' - when the timer stops and they dont move - i say bye, and leave- no need to worry. you might have to repeat this more than once in a row but hey - you would waste time either way. last night some of us kept quitting (we followed my rule) till we finally got a team where no one was afk. we lost a few matches, we won a few - but we had fun.
19-07-2006, 15:57 #3
Actually, i would be a bit more patience on afk people. When initial time runs out, give them a minute or two. If they still dont move quit. It's quite possible that they are running GW in the background while waiting for mission to start. Happens to me as well from time to time. Later on, you will already know who is leeching and who isnt, because most leechers do it 24/7.
I would also like to add few more things - if you have pve monk, or ritualist, use him on kurzick side. It will mean much more to the team than going in this battle with a warrior for instance. A team with no monk or ritualist will have very very difficult time winning. This is part of the imbalance. Luxons have more choices of good team setup, while Kurzicks dont. Unfortunately im not able to bring a solution to the problem, aside of more people going here with monk or Rt, or any defensive build. After all, remember that ur defending. You dont need to kill a single person. Your goal is to stay alive.
There is a reason why some people say they win 99% of time on Luxon side, and a reason why when i play with Rt on Kurzick side i have either winning streaks, or i still win more than lose. It's not a coincidence. Kurzick side does require effort, correct build and strategic approach, but it's not as imbalanced as people claim. 1 person can make a huge difference.
19-07-2006, 16:24 #4
One of the most important things is that heavy degen has almost no counter in disorganised PVP. Swamp them with it. I cannot stress how much damage a blood/curses Necro can do with Life Syphon/Faintheartedness/Suffering/OoB can inflict. Without proper hex removal, you inflict major carnage throughout their entire team.
19-07-2006, 17:44 #5
Not just that. I might be wrong, but i think turtles are especially vulnerable to degen. They have that resistance skill (non-critical hits....), i dont know if it's just physical dmg or ele too. But in any case degening seems to work so much better.
19-07-2006, 17:57 #6
16 in illusion
image of remorse
image of attrition
As a mesmer you can retake a mine hold by the Luxons archer under 15 seconds. If you just do that, Luxons will lose a lot of time trying to retake the mine.
The nice things about this build is that even if there is Luxons players defending the mine, most of the time you have the time to cast all your spells, even if you die right afterward it is not a big deal, you can just rush back in time to retake it or take the other one. :)
19-07-2006, 18:07 #7
Very nice guide! Just a few things I would like to add to it:
-If the Luxons have penetrated the Inner Gates, break through the Green Gate, then start harassing Gunther, do NOT have 4-5 people standing there with amber! 1-2 people is perfect, since the minute they are out of the gate you can go right to repairing, but anymore than 2 is a problem. If you aren't an amber runner, drop the amber for now and fend off the enemy.
-EoE is NOT your friend! Kill that thing ASAP! Same goes with Nature's Renewal, while it won't kill anyone, it sure kills using enchants, which defensive Kurzicks need. I find if you leave EoE up for even 10 seconds you lose. Good thing you mentioned this. :)
-In the beggining, I find most people rush the Purple Mine first, and for good reason: the Luxons tend to storm the Orange Gate first, and having the team focus on the Purple Mine to bring in amber is a good start. If the Luxons decide to storm the Purple side first, then have a few casters stay back and draw aggro while the runners rush in amber.
-Like OP said, pray to God you have a bonder monk. Especially good ones, I've seen 1 bonder monk keep Gunther and the 2 Gatekeepers alive the entire match (however, NOT when EoE is up)
-Like another said, degen is very effective against the turtles. I've been able (as a Necromancer) to solo kill turtles very quickly. The only way a turtle survives really is if someone is healing it.
-Do NOT go after the commanders! I find once teammates start going after comanders we start to lose. If someone is specially designed fo the task, and we aren't losing TOO badly, then by all means, but ONLY when we have a steady defence up should you start sending people after commanders.
-Keep both Mines at ALL COSTS. I can't stress this enough, people think that you only need 1 really, but your WRONG. You can still run amber with 1, but Luxons spawning at those points is DEADLY, ABSOLUTELY DEADLY. If you can keep both mines, chances are you have a good shot at winning (plus being able to run amber from either side or both sides is great).
-Luxon Warriors are a beotch, plain and simple. KD sucks, and having 4 of them on you sucks too. However, as long as they are running around, the enemy cannot respawn more unless both groups die (including turtles). So if the turtles are dead but a few Warriors are running around, let them. Without the turtle the Luxons are very prone to gate repair.
-Spirits are great to use here. Any Rit defensive spirit really (I find Soothing slows down the Luxon Warriors alot) and Ranger spirits such as Symbiosis and Fertile Season, just be careful with Range Spirits ;)
-Also on leechers: we know they suck, they DO suck, they obviously have nothing better to do than to waste peoples time losing with them on their team. If you absolutely can't shake leechers, play with 1, and ONLY 1. 2 or more leechers spell doom for you, so just ragequit. Personally, I ragequit when theres just 1 after the first few minutes UNLESS we have a real good team or the Luxons have more leechers, etc.
19-07-2006, 18:43 #8
Nice guide, has some great points espically this:
"EoE is your biggest enemy."
While it ture EoE CAN be used to stall it kills your npcs as well as the enemies and that is bad mojo. I dont know how many times Ive seen a Kurzick ranger use this spirit INSIDE the Green Gate after a breach.
An intereting killer luxon tactic Ive seen is a luxon streaks in casts EoE as close to the green gate as possible followed by and MM and a couple of tanks. In the resulting battle alot of stuff is leveled and the green gate generally falls. They then streak in to Gunther and repeat.
For Elementalists it is my primary build. Fire and Airis is were the money is in Aspenwood. Not that you cant have a good water or earth build you can. Fire is prefect for clearing gates and mines and some with burning you get a nice degen. I dont know how man times I destroyed mine guards with an Arcane Echo + Firestorm. Air is amazing not simply because of the spike potential but becuase many of its spells dont require LoS. Monk bonding a gate? Cant see him but can reach him with spells well Lighting Hammer, Lighting Strike and the like can.
"Ranger. Interrupts for turtle. Run skills for amber (or both of course). Touch rangers are great. I see a lot of rangers standing on the outer wall, shooting with longbow. I guess it works, but take the right skills."
I would be one. I use a Flatbow for the higher arch, it allows me to clear some structures that many block a shot. About Touch Rangers, I dont like the only because they seem to be a dime a dozen now, they have a serious advantage on the Luxon side. Becuase the gate guards, mine guards, gatebuilders and guther are all staticit is really easy to long on and kill them.
19-07-2006, 19:26 #9
One point that should be emphasized regarding mines - in addition to the benefit of receiving amber from them, the secondary benefit is that while you control a mine, Luxons will not be able to spawn there. Therefore they have a longer run back. Ergo, more time for you to clean up NPC's in your fort before their return. Etc.
I do not suggest having someone actually guard the mines, but rather make it a point to conquer them as frequently as you can.
In my experience Rt Lord can definitely stall the enemy, but as you say its not true safety, just delay. I also bring Dissonance, because its very rare to see an interrupting ranger or mes in FA. I plant it up on the wall to the side. Sometimes it decides to target a Luxon Warrior instead, and this is ever frustrating. But sometimes it DOES target the siege turtle, and with RL and Boon of Creation you can actually keep that trutle disrupted for quite a while, assuming Dissonance cooperates.
19-07-2006, 20:25 #10
after a day of ragequitting and getting just the worst ppl ever ive moved to the luxon side. in one hour ive farmed half the faction that ive farmed all day on the kurzik side. went in - degened the kurzicks to death, put up eoe and watched them hunt me outside of the fort, go after anyone and nobody running amber and nobody taking down eoe.they got wiped - several times. so now i am luxon and i laugh at the stupidety of the kurzicks.
so this guide is evil. EVIL i say and should be deleted