shove w/x

[Monstrum]

basically,

sword mastery - 12 + 1 + 2
tactics - 12 + 2
strenght - 3 + 1

shove (e)
sever artery
gash
final thrust
frenzy
sprint
heal sig
res sig

the benefit of having tactics at 14 is that u hit the 5 sec blackout recharge breakpopint for shove, as well as dealing 71 dam, and ur heal sig heals a whooping 146 hp.. u can go 13/16 instead if u prefer
strenght is a weak attribute i feel, really i dont think its nessassary to have it high, since u wont be targeting heavily armored foes anyways...

one weapon is a vampiric 15^50 sword of fortitude for the damage boost, the other is ur choice 15^50 of fortitude... shield is +30hp -5 20% chance reduce... armor of ur choice, i tend to use a mix of dragon chest & legs (for the 90 AL vs all, superior to -3 phys reduce), kd gloves & glad boots...

i tend to run in, frenzy and then shove.... u have 5 seconds before u can use sprint so be careful and think ahead.... by the time they get up, ur ready sever, they run, sprint and gash/final, then shove again if theyre not dead

plague touch would be fantastic, but alas i cant fit it in unless i remove res

im very new to warriors, so any tips would be appreciated (please no comments like "omg shock pwnorz shove!!!!!!!!!!!!1111")

[Archenine Paranoia]

1. I'm pretty sure there aren't "breakpoints" in guildwars. It does in fact calculate fractions of seconds (even fractions of damage and energy), so just because the number is different, doesn't mean it's suddenly vastly better.

2. Shove clears adrenaline. Final Thrust clears adrenaline. I don't see why you want two of them that will cripple your adrenaline.

3. You have nothing to combine with Shove. It just pushes them down and removes your ability to do any damage.

[Zarfol]

Problem with shove is, you really want to pound the crap out of someone who's sitting on the ground. But you can't... since you lose all adrenaline and you disable non-attack skills, so no chance of using To the Limit! or You will Die! to boost adrenaline up to use any skills.

So what works well with knockdown'd foes?
Lacerating Chop (can't use with shove)
Crushing Blow
Belly Smash
Hunter's Shot
Aftershock
Holy strike/stonesoul (Now if these were attack skills instead of just plain skill i could see good use of shove.

The only thing that really works well with Shove is Crushing blow and belly smash from the hammer line. Problem is, hammer has enough knockdown as it is. Also it kind of shortens any combo that you could do

If we're looking at straight damage you could do (assume 12 in each tactics and hammer)
Shove -> Crushing Blow -> Irresistable Blow -> Thrill of Victory
63 -> +17 and deep wound -> +24 -> +34
Or you could have
Forceful Blow -> Fierce Blow -> Heavy Blow -> Crushing Blow
+34 -> +34 -> +24 -> +17 and deep wound

Same amount of knockdowns, I'll take the second one because 63 daamge from shove usually is less than a +34 hammer damage attack. Advantage of shove combo is you can pull that one straight off and kill something. But you need 20 energy and have to wait 20 seconds for shove to recharge. With the second one you can use "To the Limit" and go off nearly at the start as well, and just build adrenline during down time

Shove is a good idea, just they basically tried to make it so you can't combo anything with it. So it ends up as a pretty bad elite, unless you just need a knockdown.

[neoflame]

So you made a Shock sword, except your Shock is elite and costs all of your adrenaline, including the 10 strikes you need for Final Thrust?

...right.

1. I'm pretty sure there aren't "breakpoints" in guildwars. It does in fact calculate fractions of seconds (even fractions of damage and energy), so just because the number is different, doesn't mean it's suddenly vastly better.

Final effect durations (e.g. blackouts) are rounded to the nearest second, IIRC.

[Archenine Paranoia]

My information is just from experience in things such as expertise (which works to the point of fractions) - I don't have a source on final durations. Do you? (not meaning to sound sarcastic, i'm genuinely curious about what the definite answer is)

[Monstrum]

are any of you actually reading what im writing?
i use shove before any other attack and before i use anything else... AND then i use it after i use final thrust... what adrenaline am i losing?
shove-auto attack-sever-auto attack-gash-auto attack-final thrust-shove

the "breakpoint" is, with 13 tactics u have 6 second skill cooldown... with 14 tactics u have 5 second skill cooldown

the benefits of shove over shock:
* an extra 60 damage
* an extra second of kd
* doesnt cause exaustion, so you can use it more often
* allows u to choose any secondary prof

EXAMPLE:

with frenzy i can get a good 4 hits before they get up again...
71 dam shove + 4 hits at say 30 dam + 3 vamp dam each = around 200 damage
then gash, for another 33 and bleeding... so in about 4 secs they have lost half their life and are bleeding... from then, deepwound and final thrust to finish them off

[Puntarunt]

This another example of a build that a Primary ranger can use better.

Irresistable
Wild Blow
Shove
Crushing Blow
Open
Frenzy
Sprint
Rez Sig
14 exp
12 hammer
rest tactics and you'll probably have few energy problems with everything costing 2 energy to use...

Irr->wild->shove->crushing->Irr->Wild = 10 energy.

You could fit in Hammer bash...Irresistable->hammerbash->crushing->wild blow->shove->irresistable->wild blow...

[Zarfol]

i use shove before any other attack and before i use anything else... AND then i use it after i use final thrust... what adrenaline am i losing? shove-auto attack-sever-auto attack-gash-auto attack-final thrust-shove

Yeah but how much is the shove really helping you? 71 damage and a knockdown. Not bad, but not great for an elite. You can use an IAS boost whenever you want and get a damage increase.

Instead of Shove I could take Signet of Judgement for that free knockdown and KD you anywhere, and I wouldn't have to move for it. Plus I get AOE damage, don't disable any of my skills, don't lose any adrenaline, do 2x damage vs undead. Granted you have to be monk secondary and you spend an extra 1.25 sec casting it but....

Shock and shove have the same duration knockdown. Stonefists work with all spells too. I can use meteor shower on my warrior and have someone sitting on the ground for a full 9 seconds.

Puntarunt, maybe in the open spot put in serpents quickness. Shove recharges faster then not going to help much though.

[Monstrum]

comparing something like shove to shield of judgement is silly... what use is a ranged, 2 sec cast spell to me??
i think the 60+ damage, and the fact that shove doesnt cause exaustion (letting u repeat every 20 seconds) is worth the elite slot in comparison to shock... how many times can u use shock and maintain ur mana for sprint/frenzy?

[Zarfol]

Shock you can use every so often. The reason you use shock is so you can use a better elite. Eviscerate, charge. As for keeping him from running away, you have sprint, bull's strike works and gives you the knockdown...

Against a monk, you shove and suppose you get 5 hits in..... He gets up and can uses a reversal and he's already out of the 50% range making your final thrust somewhat worthless.

Signet of Judgement was a comparison. It shows how much shove needs a boost.