So why isn't Sympathetic/Ancestral Visage more popular in GvG?

[VILenin]

As most people probably know, except for your gimmick builds (Air smiters, etc.) most balanced GvG teams use a pair of adrenaline spikers as their primary damage dealers. It's the classic charge-and-spike combo for warriors... so why isn't Sympathetic Visage more popular?

With both Sympathetic Visage and Ancestral Visage, a mesmer (or even a non-mesmer) can keep up the defenses on multiple targets at once. All he has to do is watch the warriors, and when they start charging on a target, just put Visage on the target and watch as the entire spike gets shot to hell. Axe spikers are back to square one (or square zero, now they have no energy for Shock either), thumpers can't charge for their KD, and assassins (though I see very few assassin spikes in GvG) will lose the majority of their energy in seconds (less if there are multiple assassins).

In the event that Visage gets stripped or shattered, you have another as backup. Besides, it would difficult to strip Visage before an auto-attacking warrior makes a hit.

I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for my rarely seeing Visage, as it just seems way too obvious a counter. Any takers?

[Ace Bear]

Maybe its because even though you can apply then quickly, reapplying them is a biotch? If you remove them both(which is easily done, 2 hex removals aren't hard) then 20 seconds or more of down time till the next time you can cast it. That and it doesn't stop swinging weapons it just stops adenaline when other skills have less recharge, less cost, and make the weapons' swing less likely to hit(or slower) which is better in the long run in my opinion. Can't spike if you are swinging at half speed right?

[sahlakh]

The reasons are simple. Illusion mesmers are not very popular, and although both the skills are not bad, there are several better and more versatile skills people would rather take.

[Sci]

I think people want to bring versatile counters for rangers/warriors/assassins, while those two mesmer skills are more specified for only warriors.

[Jummeh]

Its not that you have to spec much illusion points onto it. Its the fact that it takes up a skill slot on a already congested mesmer or defensive players skill bar.

Just think about it, where would it go? First consider the secondary mesmer classes:

R/Me: 10en spell is equivalent to a 22en skill... something you do not want to be using that often.
W/Me: 10en!! Really no space for it.
Mo/Me: Monks sacrifice Res Sigs because their bars are so congested!
E/Me?: There is better utility as a E/Mo to control conditions/hexes and HP
N/Me?: Again you will get better utility from say a taint warder or taint draw etc so you wouldn't really want to give up those skills just for one skill like that.
A/Me?:Energy intensive already without having to stop and cast SV around. Also with long combos, sin bars are pretty congested, most of them require 4-5 attack skills leaving only 2 (res sig takes 1) skills which are normally used for escape and speed buffs.

Mesmer primary?
With mesmer primaries, they have many other skills that they use to *actively* shutdown other players, remember SV/AV is a passive skill, you need to be hitting the person enchanted for it to take effect.


You will be hard pressed to drop an active skill for SV/AV or drop a energy control skill. I think that is the most difficult aspect.


The only prof I can see SV working is the Rit, I have tried to put it on, however, without dropping resolve, you lose out on a spirit. etc.

[Aiiane]

On a side note... SV/AV are enchantments, not hexes.

[Wuzzman]

hmmm listen to the multitasking wait! that mesmer can actually run a effective build that counters the offense of most balance build that the top guilds run AND use those skills at the same time by the gods. And rangers aren't countered in gvg...just looked at funny.

[Zui]

Mo/Me: Monks sacrifice Res Sigs because their bars are so congested!

Since when do Monks bring Res Sigs, or any kind of Ressurect at all in PvP?

[VILenin]

hmmm listen to the multitasking wait! that mesmer can actually run a effective build that counters the offense of most balance build that the top guilds run AND use those skills at the same time by the gods. And rangers aren't countered in gvg...just looked at funny.

Well, there are thumpers and Cripshots.

One thing I'd say that is useful about SV is that it's basically an instant shutdown of melee spikes. You put Faintheartedness or Blind or something on a warrior, all he has to do is call it and wait for someone to remove it (don't forget that you also have to do it separately for each attacker). Similarly, there are ways around block and evade. However, I have a hard time imagining anyone moving fast enough to remove two enchantments (or even one) in between melee hits. All it takes is one to shut down a warrior adrenal spike, and of course you've got two.

I think people want to bring versatile counters for rangers/warriors/assassins, while those two mesmer skills are more specified for only warriors.

I'd say SV works pretty well on assassins as well. Anyone who takes their assassin seriously knows that most assassin spike builds already pretty stressed for energy. Most use offhand > dual > offhand > dual. Some use different chains, but at the moment, the cookie cutter sin spiker seems to be AoD > GPS > Horns > Falling > TF. Sins can get around 30 energy with Shrouded Armor (and possibly a +5e dagger), and AoD already costs 10 energy. That's 20 left. GPS costs 10, and if SV triggers, that's 3 more. You have 7 energy left. If you use Horns of the Ox, you'll end up with zero. Hardly a spike, and if it's a dual assassin spike (I've never seen this, personally) they'll both be empty by the time both unleash their GPS.

Skillbar congestion seems like a likely explanation, but if SV is used as a reaction (and not a constant defense), you don't really need to spec too many points in Illusion, and I know I'd be able to make room for at least one skill on a shutdown mesmer.

[neoflame]

Since when do Monks bring Res Sigs, or any kind of Ressurect at all in PvP?

That's his point - if monks don't have the slot to bring Rez Sig, how the hell are they going to bring SV/AV?