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  1. #1
    GWOnline.Net Member
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    Time to nerf ritual lord?

    This skill pretty much allows ritualist to make spirit non-stop. And often turning GW into a bloody staring match. Of course the first one to give in... dies.

    Now some said well they're using 5 secs cast skill. Which's a long time to get them interrupted...

    Not so!

    1) There's usually a displacement nearby already, which you can't necessarily reach even with long bow.
    2) There're often already shadowsongs in the area, which means your warriors can't interrupt them either. So bascially in their spirit farm, they can disable warriors no problem.
    3) Ritualist are often at the back liner, far back, flank position, hard to reach by any mean. Without exposing whoever's coming after the ritualist to various danger from the other team and the spirit around the ritualist.
    4) Killing spirit takes time about 10 seconds (if not more!) because of where they're located, the shadowsongs, and their hp.
    5) Spirit has an AoE effect which makes them much more effective than monk spells in protecting teammates.
    6) The only counter to spirit are signet of creation and unnatural signet.

    Finally

    7) Were it not for ritual lord you can easily kill spirits. Ele can spike them, rangers can shoot them down, warriors can rush them. But with ritual lord pretty much they can just keep making one after another.


    I'd say at least give a +33-40% more cost to spirit spells when using ritual Lord

  2. #2
    GWOnline.Net Member B Ephekt's Avatar
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    Ritual Lord is fine just the way it is. Considering how fast the party-wide defensive spirits die, Rit Lord is hardly overpowered. As it is Displacement dies in 1-2 seconds under any kind of warrior pressure, and Shelter and Union rarely ever last 30 seconds.

    Instead of complaining about spirits, perhaps you should learn to counter the spammer. If you can't outplay the spirit spamer with tactics you deserve to lose, plain and simple. Here's a hint: Physic Distraction.

    2) There're often already shadowsongs in the area, which means your warriors can't interrupt them either. So bascially in their spirit farm, they can disable warriors no problem.
    Have a monk push up with the warrior, gg.
    3) Ritualist are often at the back liner, far back, flank position, hard to reach by any mean. Without exposing whoever's coming after the ritualist to various danger from the other team and the spirit around the ritualist.
    Have the entire team push up, or pull the team out of spirit range? I know that seems crazy, but it just might work!
    6) The only counter to spirit are signet of creation and unnatural signet.
    On a sword warrior, this is a very nice counter.


    Rit spammers are ridiculously easy to counter, maybe you should put more thought into outwiting them before you go crying for nerfs.
    Last edited by Parker Bsb; 12-09-2006 at 16:47. Reason: External link

  3. #3
    GWOnline.Net Member Patccmoi's Avatar
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    Or you can:

    Drain Enchant on Boon of Creation : energy to recast spirits over and over will be very tight. Actually, they can't spam spirits without Boon at all. It's the easiest way to partially shutdown a Rt Lord spammer.

    Use Unnatural Signet to get rid of the most annoying spirits (like Shadowsong)

    Use a Mesmer with Psychic Distraction interrupting all spirits AND not giving energy from Boon since the spirit fails.

    Use a Seeking Arrows ranger that can interrupt through Displacement and out of range of Shadowsong (or at least far enough that he shouldn't be Shadowsong's target)

    Use a W/Rt with Consume Soul that can eat all spirits. Sword warriors don't really need their elite and can use it for that if Spirits are truly your main problem.

    Use a fire ele with AOEs, spirits die very fast to nuking.

    Just hit because spirits die extremely fast anyway and Ritual Lord is the only thing allowing you to recast them.

    Etc.


    Honestly the only problem i see with spirits is that they affect NPCs, which is too good at VoD imo. Otherwise, Ritual Lord is fine. Spirits like Union or Displacement would be totally pointless if RLord was nerfed.

    Some skills i said above are already standard in most GvG builds (like drain enchant!) and others could easily be included if spirits is what counters you. But honestly, enough pressure alone is enough to take care of spirits because they die very fast. Rt Lord let them recast them, but enchant removal on Boon and enough pressure will make the Rt unable to keep up with his spirits falling.

  4. #4
    I'm not necessarily saying Ritual Lord doesn't need to be nerfed. It's probably at least partly just me, but when I'm a Ritual Lord I am still fairly vulnerable.

    What you say is true, but you didn't mention Mesmers. Ritual Lords are very vulnerable to Mesmers. Enchantment Removal just destroys a Rit's energy management (Boon of Creation), and it has a 45 second recharge. Mesmer interrupts go through the blind, Displacement, and terrain. If the Ritualist has Mantra of Resolve, there goes all the Rit's energy. If the Rit has Mantra of concentration, just take 2 interrupts. Also, the spirits (especially Displacement) die very very very quickly (Displacement typically dies as soon as it comes out).

    As to the nerf you proposed... meh 20 energy spirits. Maybe it's just me but I have energy problems as it is.

    edit: beaten by 2 people...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by B Ephekt
    Ritual Lord is fine just the way it is. Considering how fast the party-wide defensive spirits die, Rit Lord is hardly overpowered. As it is Displacement dies in 1-2 seconds under any kind of warrior pressure, and Shelter and Union rarely ever last 30 seconds.

    Instead of complaining about spirits, perhaps you should learn to counter the spammer. If you can't outplay the spirit spamer with tactics you deserve to lose, plain and simple. Here's a hint: Physic Distraction.

    Have a monk push up with the warrior, gg.
    Have the entire team push up, or pull the team out of spirit range? I know that seems crazy, but it just might work!
    http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Consume_Soul

    On a sword warrior, this is a very nice counter.


    Rit spammers are ridiculously easy to counter, maybe you should put more thought into outwiting them before you go crying for nerfs.
    Do you even PLAY gvg? before you start pipeing on at people, maybe get some experience?

    "Have a monk push up with the warrior, gg."

    Yea do you enjoy killing your monks? Do you play with your monks in the front line?

    " Here's a hint: Physic Distraction."

    And what character are you going to fit this on? The ritualist is BEHIND the other teams BACKLINE, to get in range of the ritualist you need to STAND IN THE OTHER TEAMS LINES. What GVG do you play where you can sit there spamming interrupts whilst standing in the middle of the other teams lines?

    "As it is Displacement dies in 1-2 seconds under any kind of warrior pressure, and Shelter and Union rarely ever last 30 seconds."

    If you think Shelter and Union can't be kept up, you should seriously learn to play ritualist.


    "Have the entire team push up, or pull the team out of spirit range? I know that seems crazy, but it just might work!"

    So your suggestion is, rush your team straight into the other team, so your entire team, including your backline, takes damage from the opposings entire offense PLUS spirits. Where the opposing team is at a defensive advantage because they already have spirits up. OR! (you gave us options because you're pro!) "pull out of spirit range", so you are ready to just give the other team the flag stand, or whatever territory they like?

    Consume Soul on a sword warrior.. I can't believe you're suggesting this, it just shows how much experience you lack, and yet you feel qualified to smack talk someone. What part of ritualists spam spirits BEHIND the opposing teams lines dont you understand, you really think you can get a warrior, THROUGH the other team, behind it, and all the way to its spirits and still get that warrior out alive? are the other team just standing there ignoring the warrior way behind their team, over extended, away from its monks? or are you suggesting the monks come up too? so now you have a team, where your monks are VS the opposing teams frontline, and your warrior is lost behind the opposing teams backline. You must have an amazing guild rank to pull that off!


    Before taking a rude tone with someone who brings up a COMPLETELY VALID point, how about you learn something about competative play and gvg and stop playing vs rank 2000 guilds.

    Just because counter skills exist it does not mean ritual lord is not overpowered, because they are not plausible to use. Matches with rits go VoD every time now, it requires no skill, its rediculously defensive, and if you beat a team with a rit they can happily turtle their lord for the rest of the game until VoD. You need to play in some proper gvgs before you start talking smack to competant people.

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patccmoi
    bla bla bla bla bla
    This post is equally ignorant, but at least he wasnt rude to the OP, who is correct.
    Last edited by Tiyuri; 23-08-2006 at 16:47.

  6. #6
    GWOnline.Net Member B Ephekt's Avatar
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    3,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiyuri
    Do you even PLAY gvg? before you start pipeing on at people, maybe get some experience?
    how about you learn something about competative play and gvg and stop playing vs rank 2000 guilds.
    Do YOU? I don't recall your guild even being on the ladder...

    Consume Soul on a sword warrior.. I can't believe you're suggesting this, it just shows how much experience you lack, and yet you feel qualified to smack talk someone.
    You're right, CS is horrible on warriors, that's why it was metagamed along with NR/Tranq.


    I was mostly speaking from a tombs point of view though, my guild doesn't have enough core players for GvG right now (but we're still well below 2000, thanks).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by B Ephekt
    Do YOU? I don't recall your guild even being on the ladder...

    You're right, CS is horrible on warriors, that's why it was metagamed along with NR/Tranq.


    I was mostly speaking from a tombs point of view though, my guild doesn't have enough core players for GvG right now (but we're still well below 2000, thanks).
    I guest with a LOT of players, so yes I do GVG. My guild is an HA guild, that's no secret, however we used to be top 40 under a different name before quitting to HA, and I still guest regularly for good guilds.


    "You're right, CS is horrible on warriors, that's why it was metagamed along with NR/Tranq."

    I didnt say its horrible on a warrior, I said its horrible to suggest its a counter to rit spirits, its a touch skill for gods sake, which just proves you have absolutely ZERO understanding of lines, the backline, or any other GVG *BASICS*. Yet apparently you're qualified to tell people they deserve to lose.

  8. #8
    GWOnline.Net Member B Ephekt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiyuri
    I didnt say its horrible on a warrior, I said its horrible to suggest its a counter to rit spirits, its a touch skill for gods sake, which just proves you have absolutely ZERO understanding of lines, the backline, or any other GVG *BASICS*. Yet apparently you're qualified to tell people they deserve to lose.
    The OP specifically mentioned that warriors have problems killing spirits due to blinds. I obviously mentioned the w/rt as a solution to the problem he presented... which it most certainly is.

    As far as GvG, you're the only one who has mentioned it so far. The OP didn't mention GvG as the focus of his issues, and I don't recall saying that my advice applied to GvG, so try to keep your replies in context please.

  9. #9
    If rit lord is nerfed no one will ever run a ritualist ever again. The debate should be if that's such a bad thing or not.

    I think VoDtualists aren't a paticularly attractive element of GW's gvg, and are in part resposible for uber heavy pressure metagame.

    There're often already shadowsongs in the area, which means your warriors can't interrupt them either. So bascially in their spirit farm, they can disable warriors no problem.
    If that's your problem, bring a midline draw on a distortion mesmer.

    In everything esle, tiyuri said it best.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by B Ephekt
    The OP specifically mentioned that warriors have problems killing spirits due to blinds. I obviously mentioned the w/rt as a solution to the problem he presented... which it most certainly is.

    As far as GvG, you're the only one who has mentioned it so far. The OP didn't mention GvG as the focus of his issues, and I don't recall saying that my advice applied to GvG, so try to keep your replies in context please.

    He mentioned rits being in the backline, thats specifically a GVG problem, in HA rits are generally in easy striking distance.

    Rits are no problem in HA, and a HUGE problem in GVG. Hence the complaints. It's obviously a GVG concern.

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