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  1. #41
    Here is my take on this.

    Mursaat and Margonites are both creations of Abaddon.

    The Mursaat were created as servant upon Tyria, while the Margonites were created as servants within Abaddon's own god realm.

    When Abaddon was imprisoned, the Mursaat, who were still wandering the lands, were able to break free of the control of their master. Once they were free, they then knew how to develop new skills, using the remnants of Abaddon's strongholds on Tyria.

    Rather than trying to free their master, they preferred the free reign dominance of their kind upon the land. Or, it could be, that they were taking over Tyria for their master, knowing that they, themselves, could not free their master from his prison.

    If you remember, the Margonites did not make their appearance until the Fortress scene where Varesh was able to summon them. After the walls of Abaddon's prison had been deteriorating. Being so imprisoned, I doubt that Abaddon would have had the necessary abilities to train and give his servants the gifts that the Mursaat were able to develop under free will.

    They are created by the same god, in similiar make, but different purposes and in different locations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius View Post
    BUT we also see the Forgotten using Mursaat armor to fight against various things. The Forgotten are undoubtably good. A Forgotten in the Lair of the Forgotten talks about his race fighting against the Margonites, and them wiping his entire brood out as an example.
    If I remember correctly in the storyline, Abaddon was not always evil, either. It could be that he created for the better at first. Which meant that anyone at the time would have been able to use it. And being creatures of habit, continued to use that particular design throughout the years out of practicality rather than by the design.
    Last edited by Quintus Antonius; 10-11-2006 at 13:23.

  2. #42
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    I merged your posts. During the hour that the edit button is active, please try to use that.

    ***

    The whole "Mursaat serve Abaddon" argument doesn't hold water for the simple reason that they sacrafice themselves to try to stop the Titans once they are released, and that they fight so hard to keep that door shut. If they were trying to "conquer Tyria for their master", it is likely they'd have aided the Lich, not fought against him, it is also likely that they'd just let the Titans do their thing, rather than fight a losing battle that cost hundreds of Mursaat lives and did nothing to stop the Titans. Logically, with regards to the evidence we have, the Mursaat cannot currently be serving Abaddon.

    The Mursaat weren't summoned, the Margonites are slaves. They have no free will beyond serving Abaddon, and have to be summoned, the Mursaat can do whatever they want, and if you tried to "control" one, he'd probably just look at you funny then make your head explode with Spectral Agony.

    I will conceed that we have no way of knowing how the Mursaat felt about Abaddon when he was a legitamate god. If I were a Tyrian (in real life), he'd probably have been my patron as he was the god of knowledge and all that jack. So, a very diverse group of people probably worshipped him at one time. Since he was the god of water also, we'd have everyone from scholars to fishermen worshipping him. So, I wouldn't fully rule-out that the proto-Mursaat had some connection to him. I just do not feel that the evidence supports that this connection is also a connection with the Margonites.
    |||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||

  3. #43
    Perhaps this is interesting to note: If you try to use Lightbringer's Gaze on titans (Like with the Defend Droknar's Forge quest), it turns out you can't. Lightbringer's gaze only works on the servants of Abaddon... so does this mean the titans aren't servants of Abaddon?

  4. #44
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    No, it just means this is not a core feature.

    We have in-game text saying how the Titans are servants of Abaddon.
    |||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||

  5. #45
    Wait wait wait...
    Many many of these posts here are assuming Glint is good, and not a delusional old dragon (You know... my grandma has alchimerz at 75... glint is 2000+ years old >.>)
    Also... who is to say the Seer and Mursaat races are from the planet of Tyria in the first place? Perhaps they just have some really large galactic war that is happening, and Tyria just happens to be caught up in it?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Reikai View Post
    Wait wait wait...
    Many many of these posts here are assuming Glint is good, and not a delusional old dragon (You know... my grandma has alchimerz at 75... glint is 2000+ years old >.>)
    Also... who is to say the Seer and Mursaat races are from the planet of Tyria in the first place? Perhaps they just have some really large galactic war that is happening, and Tyria just happens to be caught up in it?
    That must be the silliest theory I've ever heard. Then again, defeating Gods isn't really a standard thing, either. While it's perfectly possible, I doubt it's the truth. Galactic wars don't really seem to be a Guild Wars thing, but I'm guessing that can be debated.

    (Nice attempt, though. Problem with me is that I seriously consider every theory I read on these forums.)

    Anyhow, back to the main topic. Do we have /any/ proof the Mursaat knew of Abbadon, in the first place? Any hints? Anything close to a hint?

    During my journey through Elona, I haven't encountered the word Mursaat once.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphe View Post
    During my journey through Elona, I haven't encountered the word Mursaat once.
    Nor I, and given that pretty much everything else (except Gwen of course, ttbomk) was explicitly addressed wrapped up with "Abaddon did it", I find it very conspicuous that the Mursatt and the Seer's were not mentioned AT ALL. The only connection I have so far found is the soul bridge and surrounding architecture. Chapter 4, anyone?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphe View Post
    Anyhow, back to the main topic. Do we have /any/ proof the Mursaat knew of Abbadon, in the first place? Any hints? Anything close to a hint?
    Absolutely. First of all, the Mursaat are guarding a volcano known as "Abaddon's Mouth" trying to keep his servants, the Titans, locked away. Second, the Jade Armors that are used by the Mursaat have six-eyes. So far, only things associated with Abaddon have had this. So yes, the is definitely some connection between the Mursaat and Abaddon, however, I believe that evidence seems to indicate that this is not a Master-Servant relationship, rather, a Prisoner-Jailer relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys ap Llysgwr View Post
    Nor I, and given that pretty much everything else (except Gwen of course, ttbomk) was explicitly addressed wrapped up with "Abaddon did it", I find it very conspicuous that the Mursatt and the Seer's were not mentioned AT ALL. The only connection I have so far found is the soul bridge and surrounding architecture. Chapter 4, anyone?
    Yup, this is why I think that the Mursaat are not directly related to Abaddon, as in, part of his army like the Margonites. Every creature that served Abaddon is in Nightfall or mentioned in Nightfall, from the Vizier and Shiro, to the Charr and the Titan, they all appear in the Realm of Torment, because they served Abaddon. However, no Mursaat, and no Seers. This is because neither race served Abaddon, the Seers seemed completely unaware of him.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Quintus Antonius View Post
    The armors aren't just "similar", they are 1 to 1 except for the color. That transcends similar, and coincidence.
    The forgotten custodian armor has legs and arms, with the body shape of a human. The jades have no legs at all, and only small arms. The caster mursaat use robes, nothing to base armor around. The custodian armor pretty much appears to be large human armor, which doesn't say anything about being the mursaat or not.

    There is one Margonite unit that looks similar to a Mursaat. The body is different, the legs are different, the color is different, the face is different, the "wings" are different in size, shape, material and number. This is like saying that Koss must certainly be related to Rurik because they both use the same animation. [/QUOTE]

    Koss is related to Rurik, they are both humans. The margonite spellcasters, on the other hand, all look similar enough to mursaat to be considered related. (they float, use wands and staffs the same way, have winglike things coming out of the same body section, and float in a similar position). Thiis may just be a repeated use of shape, similar to shiro'ken, but it does seem odd that that particular shap would be repeated through two different chapters.

    Every creature that served Abaddon is in Nightfall or mentioned in Nightfall, from the Vizier and Shiro, to the Charr and the Titan, they all appear in the Realm of Torment, because they served Abaddon. However, no Mursaat, and no Seers.
    If the mursaat ever were associated with abaddon, it would be a long time ago, enough for their appearence to change over time as they left that association behind, so that the mursaat we see today won't appear in the realm of torment.

  10. #50
    Margonite's are Abbadon's "Children", the very first ones fought alongside him in the first War of the Gods. The ones we fight are slightly modified versions, created by Varesh.

    Both Margonites and Mursaat are minions of Abbadon's [unwillingly in the case of Mursaat, true], so it'd only make sense for them to share similarities.

    And the Seer is a Margonite, for anyone who was wondering.

    Yes, I know he doesn't look just like the Margonites ingame, but remember, these are fresh ones, whereas he looks like the old ones, that are probably extinct. The floating should be enough for anyone to realize that, no?
    Last edited by Elessar Thranduillion; 10-11-2006 at 20:59.

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