Abaddon/Mursaat connection? (SPOILERS)

[Nanashi]

We know for a fact the Margonites worshipped all the gods at one time. Just play the Gate of Madness mission.

Anywho, the way I see it, the Seers either A) knew about Abaddon and as Iceflower said, just hate the Mursaat so much they don't care and then want to clean up the mess afterwords, or B) Hate the Mursaat, but don't know about the Titans until they are released.

They weren't called Margonites then. They were just simple humans so of course they worshipped others. It was the time at which Abaddon fell they began to morph somehow into what they are now and plunged the shrines into the Gates Of Madness.

It struck me that inside the Domain of Anguish, the Foundry of failed creations is the only place with titans in it.

Why is it called the Foundry of Failed Creations? Who are the failed creations...? Do they mean the titans?

Yes, titans are failed creations according to the lore. Supposedly the Charr are too since they worship the titans and Abaddon. Why the Charr aren't there, who knows. But then again, Charr aren't magic infused with the elements... they were living breathings creatures. Hmmm

[Durza the Shadeking]

The Charr were never failed creations. They were creations that worshipped the Titans and those that met the Titans are most likely to be the ones in the Realm of Torment.

Note:The Charr could not have worshipped Abbadon as they never knew who Abbadon was. (Hence the confusion of the Charr in RoT)

[Quintus Antonius]

They weren't called Margonites then. They were just simple humans so of course they worshipped others. It was the time at which Abaddon fell they began to morph somehow into what they are now and plunged the shrines into the Gates Of Madness.

No. The Elonans, Kurzicks, Luxons, Corsairs, White Mantle, Ascalonians, Krytans, Orrians, and several other groups are all humans, and they are not "just" humans. The Margonites are called Margonites because they originated on the Marga Coast of Elona. It has nothing to do with them worshipping Abaddon. They are mutated because they are Margonites, not Margonites because they are mutated.

Yes, titans are failed creations according to the lore. Supposedly the Charr are too since they worship the titans and Abaddon. Why the Charr aren't there, who knows. But then again, Charr aren't magic infused with the elements... they were living breathings creatures. Hmmm

That doesn't even make sense. But I think Durza already said it best.

[Nanashi]

No. The Elonans, Kurzicks, Luxons, Corsairs, White Mantle, Ascalonians, Krytans, Orrians, and several other groups are all humans, and they are not "just" humans. The Margonites are called Margonites because they originated on the Marga Coast of Elona. It has nothing to do with them worshipping Abaddon. They are mutated because they are Margonites, not Margonites because they are mutated.

So you're telling me they ran around, before Abaddon was over thrown, looking like celestial beings? Their glowy appearence was always like that? I doubt that. I believe they were human beings but just another simple race (IE. Tryians, Canthans, Istani, Kournan, Vabbian, etc.) but their religion towards Abaddon, I think, corrupted them somehow.

The Charr were never failed creations. They were creations that worshipped the Titans and those that met the Titans are most likely to be the ones in the Realm of Torment.

Note:The Charr could not have worshipped Abbadon as they never knew who Abbadon was. (Hence the confusion of the Charr in RoT)

Yeah I was in a hurry so I got that part a little jumbled up. I don't know, I got this theory they "felt" imperfect which is what led them to worship the titans in the first place. Titans, all though they were long gone, they were superior for quite sometime yet deemed an imperfect creation. So seeing as how even the titans were failed creations, they still had might unmatched by anything else. Which would lead to sort of a idealistic P.O.V. Perhaps they thought that by worshipping the Titans in the first place they would feel superior among the world once the titans conquered the land... if they did.

That's just my speculation.

[Quintus Antonius]

So you're telling me they ran around, before Abaddon was over thrown, looking like celestial beings? Their glowy appearence was always like that? I doubt that. I believe they were human beings but just another simple race (IE. Tryians, Canthans, Istani, Kournan, Vabbian, etc.) but their religion towards Abaddon, I think, corrupted them somehow.

Read the Manuscripts, and read what I wrote again. I didn't say that at all. The Margonites were a group of seafaring people from the Marga coast of Kourna. They go to the Crystal Desert to try to Ascend. Sometime between here and Exodus, they abandon all worship of the other five gods and turn exclusively to Abaddon. Abaddon then grants them powers, which transform them into the creatures we now see.

It's explained in the Manuscripts, and in game several times.

[Nanashi]

Read the Manuscripts, and read what I wrote again. I didn't say that at all. The Margonites were a group of seafaring people from the Marga coast of Kourna. They go to the Crystal Desert to try to Ascend. Sometime between here and Exodus, they abandon all worship of the other five gods and turn exclusively to Abaddon. Abaddon then grants them powers, which transform them into the creatures we now see.

It's explained in the Manuscripts, and in game several times.

Ok I edmit I didn't know about the reason why they were called Margonites, the race before becoming tainted by Abaddon, Now I know. So that was my bad. But even then I stated they were humans and did not become the Margonites we know now if it were not for completely turning to Abaddon.

Back on topic, I think that Rognik's theory of a parallel between Mursaat and Margonites is very intriguing. There are similarities in the look of Margonites and Mursaat. Is it possible that the Musaat were rebel Margonites that turned their backs on Abaddon and decided to worship the Five Gods? For all we know it could be possible that at one point the Margonites worshipped all six gods of Tyria until they decided to follow Abaddon alone, so maybe the Mursaat either decided to continue to worship the other gods or they went back to their old religion after Abaddon was chained and keeping the now outcast god imprisoned.

I doubt it. It is typical for devs to use existing models and redesign them slightly just to make them different. There are no connections as of yet so it's all just speculations and theories on this but I really doubt their connection. Using the story of the margonites that Quint has given us, the Margonites were always here but the Mursaat however came here from the other side.

[Ranger Nietzsche]

I doubt the mursaat are margonites.

These days I doubt the mursaat are anything at all but exactly what the game says. Mursaat != Glint Mursaat != Titans Mursaat != Abaddon Mursaat != Margonites.

[aptaleonII]

i agree with Ranger Nietzsche here. there is, almost certainly, no connection (but there's always the sliiight possiblity that i just don't believe needs much looking into). What is the source of the Musaat coming from anywhere but tyria theory? i personally believe they were just maguuma-dwellers with a cloaked city on the Ullen.

[Quintus Antonius]

Ok I edmit I didn't know about the reason why they were called Margonites, the race before becoming tainted by Abaddon, Now I know. So that was my bad. But even then I stated they were humans and did not become the Margonites we know now if it were not for completely turning to Abaddon.

It's no problem. Not everyone can know everything all the time. So long as people are willing to learn, not knowing something is hardly an event to be ashamed of.

I doubt it. It is typical for devs to use existing models and redesign them slightly just to make them different. There are no connections as of yet so it's all just speculations and theories on this but I really doubt their connection. Using the story of the margonites that Quint has given us, the Margonites were always here but the Mursaat however came here from the other side.

It's quite common. Every warrior pretty much uses the same model. The Shadow Army of Menzies uses modified White Mantle textures, even though they aren't connected.

Anyway, we've seen that there are Margonites who don't follow Abaddon, and they look no different than their fellow Margonites.

I doubt the mursaat are margonites.

These days I doubt the mursaat are anything at all but exactly what the game says. Mursaat != Glint Mursaat != Titans Mursaat != Abaddon Mursaat != Margonites.

Amen.

[Minionman]

There is no other explanation in game for the mursaat, so it does make sense that people would go for just about anything as mursaat, and margonite do have more similarities than other things in game.


Hopefully a future chapter will put some explanation on the mursaat, but that's outside anything in here.