Ok I have a question about Abbadon, if he truly is the god of secrets, he must know everyone's secrets, why didnt he just black mail the other gods, meaning that if u go against me i will tell your secrets to everyone else?
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14-12-2006, 17:12 #1
[Elonian Lore] The God of Secrets
14-12-2006, 18:20 #2
Well, the answer this, we have to look at the nature of gods in pantheonic religions, especially Grecko-Romano relgions where gods govern a sphere of influence. That god or goddess is not the source of his or her realm, they simply watch over what happens within that realm. For instance, Mercury/Hermes was the god of travellers, that doesn't mean that he causes people to travel, it meant that roads and travellers were to pray to him for protection. In Guild Wars, Grenth is the god of death, this doesn't mean he causes death, it means he takes over once someone dies. While Abaddon is the god of secrets, it doesn't mean he knows all secrets or causes people to have secrets, it simply means he governs the sphere of knowledge known as "secrets".
If we want to take it further, it may be only one or two specific secrets, rather than secrets as a general term. We know Abaddon gave magic to the races of Tyria, which was considered a secret of the gods. Many people compare him to Prometheus, which I think is an apt comparison. Difference being, of course, Prometheus didn't try to assault heaven.|||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||
14-12-2006, 20:35 #3
I agree. Abbadon would have been the god that one prayed to when one needed to find deeply hidden secret. The killer of one's family, a place to find an old and well-hidden elite spell...things of this nature should have been in his realm. Of course, as with praying to all gods, one should be sure to be ready to do an awful lot of work to achieve that goal as well. You can't sit at home and just expect an old dusty tome to fall into your lap, you have to go and search for it.
14-12-2006, 20:37 #4
The question I have is this, was Abaddon always the malcontent we see him as or was he corrupted by the secrets and knowledge he was tasked to keep and/or mistreatment by the other gods?
To follow the Prometheus parrallel he would have initially been simply attempting to help man, whom he had taken a liking to (possably above that he had for his fellow gods). Was this the case, or was the gift of magic solely given to cause problems and not aid mortals?
There may have also been other slights he felt from the gods before his final act of defiance (well, the one that got him locked in Torment anyway). Remember, it wsan't the gift of fire that got Prometheus chained to the mountain. For that transgression Zeus punished his brother and sister-in-law (a lovely lass named Pandora) with the gift of the Box. When it was opened his family and all the mortals he cherished were punished while he was forced to watch.
He was only chained to the mountain when he continued his defiance and refused to tell Zeus a secret he wanted to know. In this case the name of the woman (actually a nymph if I remember right) who would bear the child of Zeus capable of overthrowing him (turned out to be Achilles) as he had overthrown his father, and Chronos had before him with Uranus.
Now, if these are really the parrallels to Abbadon one must ask if he may have been a bit abused by the other gods for his knowledge and if this would have added to his hatred or if he was just a bad seed from the start and just looking for any excuse to cause trouble/grab for power.
I would love to get a detailed mythological history of the gods of Tyria. Something told from the viewpoints of followers of all the gods beck in the time before the fall of Abaddon. I can't beleive for a moment that everything was as black and white as we are shown. History is, after all, writen by the victors and they often paint themselves in much fairer tones than they truthfully earned. It would be fun to play archeologist here and unearth some of what really happened without bias.
14-12-2006, 21:02 #5
I'd just like to clarify that the Abaddon-Prometheus comparison is not mine. Another user intially came up with it, I was just saying I agree. I don't want to accidently take credit for someone else's ideas.
Anywho, Abaddon, like Prometheus was chained down too. Only instead of having animals eat his liver all day, he was just shoved into the Realm of Torment.
My personal belief is that Abaddon may have been a scapegoat. The gods screwed up with the creation of Tyria, which is why they left, and eventually make other worlds. And instead of saying, "Okay guys, we screwed up here." they pointed to Abaddon and said, "You gave them magic, so it's your fault". Abaddon gets angry, feels rejected, attacks heaven, becomes corrupted by his hate, and becomes the evil dark god we see today. Obviously gods like Dhuum and Abaddon who were at one time very legitamate gods, became corrupted by something. We just don't know for sure the whole story.|||Quintus Antonius Adepphius Philologus Tyrianicus Canthacus Elonacus Durheimus|||
14-12-2006, 21:09 #6It would be fun to play archeologist here and unearth some of what really happened without bias.
14-12-2006, 21:20 #7
1. If he (Abaddon) governs the realm of secrets are u saying that he is not able to do anything within his own realm, for example extract any type of secret whenever he wishes.
2.Is Grenth able to do anything he wants to souls who enter the Underworld?
3.Abaddon is also the god of water correct?
4.Since Abaddon was exiled into the realm of torment, is this the case for the lack of actual water skills for elementalist, since they are mostly ice?
I'm very curious about these things
14-12-2006, 21:53 #8
14-12-2006, 22:56 #9
1) He is most likely not able to extract any secret he wishes. Gods act more like patrons than complete masters of their domain- he may help someone find out a secret, or he may help someone forget a secret, or he may hold secrets himself, but he probably does not have complete 100% control over secrets.
2) Before Grenth, Dhuum held this place, as you show you know. Dhuum was clearly able to do anything he wished to the souls, mistreating them unjustly. Grenth is likely to have the same power over those that reach his domain, although as is shown in the nightfall campain, outside forces can divert souls, preventing them getting there in the first place and sending them elsewhere.
3) Correct. or at very least, it's heavily implied in the scriptures of Abaddon.
4) I doubt it, although this would make sense, as Grenth is the god of ICE, not WATER, and the patron of hydromancers nontheless.... hmm.
15-12-2006, 10:20 #10
This one I'm sure we can say is justthe mind workings of whoever thought up the elemental skills. The water functions are probably spread out amongst the other gods, since there still are sailors, irrigation systems, rivers, wells, etc. that involve water, that people use that they would pray over.
Abbadon was the god of Water and secrets/knowledge. So in fact, Grenth probably not only took over Dhuum's power over the underworld and the dead, he probably also took over the prayers and worship of the hydromancers who, willingly or otherwise, followed Abbadon.
Ok, I've got a question. Grenth ursurped Dhuum. As far as I know, Dhuum was the god of death/underworld. Grenth, nowadays, is the god of ice and death. Is the power of ice/cold linked to death, or was that Grenth's original power as a lesser deity, which he linked to death after he defeated Dhuum?
ok, next question:
Originally Posted by Apostate
The Apostate seems to suggest that the power of the god of secrets has changed hands atleast three times, before Kormir, and possibly even more. Was his power deemed too dangerous, or prone to corruption, or somesuch, that Abbadon had to be locked away?