Soul Reaping

[Gmr Leon]

My only comment on Soul Reaping is the following:

Now I have a reason to warrant teleporting into enemies with Consume Corpse and creating some form of havoc. Putrid Explosion,Well of the Profane,some Curses hexes against anti-melee?

I dislike the change as much as you guys, but if this change warrants the teleportation into a random group of enemies and spreading hexes..Fun.

[Xycury]

Undoubtably, though I wouldn't say all can't manage energy. I can handle a monk, elementalist or ritualist fine in that regard. Each just functions differently in how they manage that energy. I mention those 3 since I play them quite often as well not for any class to class specific comparison.

[quote[Necros are boring to me. MMing or even Blood/Curse. Just because of all the skills and all the energy always overflowing, i'm constantly wanting to cast something or I'm wasting it.p/quote]
Well to each their own. I find them more interesting than most other classes due to versatility and the variety of builds they can run. SR before did give more energy than was needed and when a pack of enemies died you typically overflowed (thus wasted) energy, but with this change now you tend to come up a bit short at the wrong times in a fight. Hexes are expensive and they aren't quick killers typically. Even SS, which I'll grant is a very powerful skill, isn't all that fast unless you spin 3-4 of them into a pack and then it just about out damages anything. Blood definately makes for slow killing, but I enjoy playing blood builds quite a bit. Certainly more than the micromanagement of playing a MM.


They did, but it seems they only took MMs into consideration with that improvement. If they dropped a few other key spells in the blood & curse lines (and no I don't mean ones like SS, it is perfectly balanced at 15e) then I think the change would be fine. As is though some skills won't see use again due to their low damage to cost ratio.


It isn't uncommon that I'd run 3 lready. I just don't like having that 3rd one dictated for me or pigeon-holed into /Me for energy management.


I can't say I agree here though. If necromancers were so broken or had it so easy as people keep claiming then they would see a great deal more play in PvP and in PvE groups. How often do you see a PUG allowing more than 1 necro in a group? More than 2? Yet groups expect multiple monks, elementalists and warriors often times.


We'll all adapt I'm sure and I certainly wouldn't stop playing my necromancer anytime soon, but that doesn't change that I think this wasn't the right way to go about it. Unfortunately if we don't voice that then it never gets heard and only one side of the game's players are listened to. Considering that the attribute functions very differently within the two modes of play this isn't a good thing.

It's actually nice to have a conversation instead of a fight of words and blaming.

Anyways I think it's more of the balance that was before the Rits came. As I said for like 100th time, :P they should have made the change when they halfed the spirit gain.

I think it's about time that they focus now on skills.

I think somone had a good thought about BR and BiP and that they can target themselves. Much like that Spawning elite the Rits have... -5 health, 5energy regen.

I think if they balanced the skills with more life saccing, I think all will be well.

Again, I think Anet had bigger reasons than the spirit nerf that could have been the easy way out.

Maybe, for EofN, that SR would be godly enough to force this change now.

Anyways, we still have an expansion, which will bring new skills.

I don't think a Necro is broken, just slower, and needing to be smarter.

If I have to bring a third attribute, say Inspiration, and take Leach Signet to interrupt a spell... so be it. It'll gain energy for me and help the party. I think Lost Souls is important, but I can see the issues with Proph/Factions only guys.

I just think Anet had bigger reasons than PvP only. They could have taken the easy way out and said 0e to spirits, but they didn't.

It would be great for Gaile to write up a paragraph at least why. Release notes/Game updates are fine, but explanations or reasonings would sound 10x better.

[Ace of Spades]

so far my only thing against this change was in allaince battles.
since soul reaping only triggers every five seconds now there were multiple occasions where there were lots of people dying around me but i only got half the benifit of soul reaping because a spirit died on that fifth second ignoring all the player/pet/npc/and minion deaths going on around me...
maybe since it only triggers every five seconds now we can bring back to energy from spirit deaths?

[chirthain]

I've posted this in various threads:

I would love to see a change like this:

--Remove energy gain from spirits
--Half the energy gain from someone else's minions.

[Rakgar]

It's actually nice to have a conversation instead of a fight of words and blaming.

This is true or someone coming in simply to make insulting overgeneralizations just to annoy people. Derails any kind of conversation that could occur in the CDF everytime. I think it is funny, as someone mentioned, that this thread in the Necromancer forum is the calmest where you might otherwise expect the greatest outcry.

I think it's about time that they focus now on skills.

Given a change to a few skills the energy reduction would be balanced.

I think somone had a good thought about BR and BiP and that they can target themselves. Much like that Spawning elite the Rits have... -5 health, 5energy regen. I think if they balanced the skills with more life saccing, I think all will be well.

Blood Ritual perhaps, but I would hate to see the Blood is Power elite gain a heavier sacrifice. 33% is already a pretty hefty chunk of your hide when you're not using a gimmicky 55hp/1hp setup as is done in DoA.

Again, I think Anet had bigger reasons than the spirit nerf that could have been the easy way out. Maybe, for EofN, that SR would be godly enough to force this change now.

This is most likely true and could be similar to how Factions introduction forced the eventual change to MMs, but I still can't say I care for the fact that it was a PvP issue that triggered the change the way it was done.

If I have to bring a third attribute, say Inspiration, and take Leach Signet to interrupt a spell... so be it. It'll gain energy for me and help the party. I think Lost Souls is important, but I can see the issues with Proph/Factions only guys.

The only thing I have a real disagreement with this line of thinking is that this means the necromancer, a class who's primary was the best energy management in the game, now would have to devote two attributes worth of investment towards energy management. That is something that no other caster in the game needs to accomplish and yet necromancers aren't far outpowering the other classes.

[bizlib]

Sad that they nerfed Necros again.

Could have gotten the same result with a much softer tool - such as the no eng from spirits.

anyway - i think this is an overnerf - would have at least wanted to see a boast to other necro skills, epecially the ones used to gain eng....

I for one am using a N/E - which means the glyphs are used for eng - sicne hte glyph of lesser eng also was nefred for me (Cuz the glyph is now -10 not -15 as it used to be), some of the previous builds I ran were left somewhat on the downside, guess i'll have to use different minions now...

Not a nice nerf at all (Especially having in mind the previous SS nerf, the MM limits on minions and the Vertra nerf).

[ManMadeGod]

so far my only thing against this change was in allaince battles.
since soul reaping only triggers every five seconds now there were multiple occasions where there were lots of people dying around me but i only got half the benifit of soul reaping because a spirit died on that fifth second ignoring all the player/pet/npc/and minion deaths going on around me...
maybe since it only triggers every five seconds now we can bring back to energy from spirit deaths?

The 5-second thing makes soul reaping very conditional, the energy gained from soul reaping is not reliable.
And Half energy from spirits makes soul reaping unstable.

It's way too unstable, for example, you have 10 in soul reaping.
Think about 5 deaths can result in, potentially max 5*10 energy, but probably only 10/2 in total. The difference between 50 and 5 is acceptable?

They changed soul reaping without sufficient consideration.

[evillorderic]

I think Soul Reaping is just fine with the new changes. To those spewing DOOM, an efficient MM can still be used in PVE, unless I have been seeing things for the past 24 hours.

The reason ANET simply did not change it to "Does not trigger from the deaths of spirits" is because they realized how broken it was to begin with.

Do you know of any other caster class that can passively refill their energy bar in seconds? Nope, but necros can (could). Every other caster class has had to rely on energy management and now Necromancers do too, welcome to what is known as "fair."

The issue here is that necros have become spoiled. They aren't used to having to actually manage their energy and now all of a sudden they do.

For what it is worth, my primary character is a necromancer, love her to death.

[Rakgar]

I think Soul Reaping is just fine with the new changes. To those spewing DOOM, an efficient MM can still be used in PVE, unless I have been seeing things for the past 24 hours.

I think you're missing that most of the players agree that MMs are handling fine for the most part. It is the blood/curse builds that took a heavier hit. I would say the curse ones especially as blood tends to kill things a bit more staggered. I also would not say most players, especially in this thread, have been spewing "DOOM", but instead expressing their view on the change and wether it is overdone or sufficient.

The reason ANET simply did not change it to "Does not trigger from the deaths of spirits" is because they realized how broken it was to begin with.

And yet amazingly enough Necromancers were shunned for nearly a year when the game came out as being too inferior to deal with in PUGs. The class in elite areas usually gets to play a completely support role even when they are capable of delivering pretty serious damage. Hardly -that- broken in my opinion.

Do you know of any other caster class that can passively refill their energy bar in seconds? Nope, but necros can (could). Every other caster class has had to rely on energy management and now Necromancers do too, welcome to what is known as "fair."

Passively? Try an elementalist. First you get to start in the 90-100 energy range, then via attunements you get to shave 30%+1 off the cost of any spell cast in that range. Now add in skills like the improved Glyph of Lesser Energy (before this buff) and Glowing Gaze and you can easily spam something like Searing Flames (@15e no less) every 2 seconds without running out of energy much longer and more continuously than a necromancer could. I love necromancers, but I've played both of those classes fairly well and I definately would not call them broken. They have the potential to be abused via secondaries in a niche build that needed to be fixed.

The issue here is that necros have become spoiled.

Your opinion is certainly welcome, but please keep the tone of this thread on the friendlier side it has been since the nerf. So far we've at least been discussing what the change has done and ways to work around it. Not simply drawing lines in the dirt like the CDF.

[Xycury]

Your opinion is certainly welcome, but please keep the tone of this thread on the friendlier side it has been since the nerf. So far we've at least been discussing what the change has done and ways to work around it. Not simply drawing lines in the dirt like the CDF.

yep the CDF is like a hostile country raging war.

I think all necros were comfortable, maybe too comfortable with the 2 years of normal SR.

I don't think there was an outcry back in the spirit nerf.

I am wondering if they shouldn't just peak SR in relation to FC for mesmers.

Give them a steady stream but lower the energy.


I still need more testing, but I agree that Blood may have an easier time.

It could take a reduced energy cost to Curses to stay the way that SR is.