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  1. #1

    Which Paragon skills do you think are useless and why?

    I would like to make a list with skills the posters think are useless, and the reasons why. Both so we may learn with each other (a skill I think is useless could actually be useful in a way I haven't thought about), and both so we could give focused feedback to Arena Net about what to improve.

    I would like to follow more or less the format:

    Skill name (with the description, if you feel like adding it)

    Mode you are talking about (I'm talking about PvE, since that's all I play, for example)

    Why do you think the skill is useless

    Suggestions on how to fix it

    (If your list would be too big and you don't have that much free time, I would suggest posting only a few at a time )

    Here's some of mine:

    "Can't Touch This!": Shout. For 20 seconds, the next 1..4..5 touch Skills used against you fail. 10 energy cost, 20 seconds recharge.

    Game mode: PvE

    The skill is too limited. Even when against enemies that use touch skills (that are not that common in the first place), protecting only yourself against skills that do little for such a high energy cost is not worth it.

    I would suggest changing it so it works for the entire party, decreasing the duration to 10 seconds (so it would not be up all the time), or changing it so the touch skills fail and the user also takes damage. Even then this skill would still be flawed, though - it's the kind of skill I like the least, one that is "useful" if you are against some very specific kind of oponent and useless otherwise.

    "Make Haste!": Shout. For 5..17..20 seconds, target other ally moves 33% faster. This skill ends if that ally successfully hits with an attack. 5 energy cost, 10 seconds recharge.

    "Lead the Way!": Shout. Target ally moves 25% faster for 1..4..5 seconds for each ally within earshot (maximum 20 seconds). 10 energy, 8 seconds recharge.

    Game mode: PvE

    Both have the same problem. In PvE, often it's actually dangerous to have some moving faster than the rest of your team - you risk leaving the "runner" outside of the range or healers. Even in conditions in which you could separate a "runner" from the team (such as when tanking to draw aggro), there is no point for a speed buff. The only condition in which this would be useful is to help casters kite when under attack of melee enemies, a help that is only needed in Hard Mode, where the enemies already move faster anyway, and where other kinds of defense are better.

    Those skills need to be changed so they are more suited for defense, IMO. I believe they should have a % to block attacks, making them actually useful when used on an ally who's trying to kite. They would need to have their duration reduced and/or recharge increased so this effect cannot be kept forever, though.

    Erasculio

  2. #2
    some uses for the skills you posted -
    can't touch this is the centre of n/p and rt/p, as well as p/rt and possibly p/n, builds for farming ancient armour remnants.
    (desperately needs to be something you can choose who to target with though, would prefer 5 energy cost, 5 second recharge, limited to 1 touch skill, and make the duration scale instead)
    Make haste! and/or Lead the Way! are or have been used for relic running in HA. The former is a very strong skill for running in a duo, the latter is a good method of anti-kiting that doesn't prevent you using stances.

    I'd like to nominate two thirds of the motivation line, signet of aggression, swift javelin, mighty throw, leader's comfort, natural temper, make your time!, bladeturn refrain, maybe help me! but it seems to synergise well with zealot's fire.

  3. #3
    How about instead of making threads constantly promoting the uselessness of the paragon class and skills you do something a little more constructive?

    You can point out more of a positive side of the class and what they can bring out in a group. We all know about the nerfs, balances, and simple changes that has plagued the class. We don't need reminders every week on how YOU think the class doesn't work.

    Not trying to start a fight over the class ( that's been done enough ) I'm just tired of people choosing to show the cons even if they do outweigh the pros. One reason why this section of the GW forums lacks in responses and posts -- all people see is complaining. I know your trying to get constructive criticism but more often it leads to the same place, nowhere. I think tons of people have already voiced there opinions on the state of the class/skills - where ANET takes it from here is out of our hands.
    Last edited by TheDivider; 18-05-2007 at 17:35.

  4. #4
    Please then do start a positive thread on Paragons. One is definitely needed. I saw someone said they did Raisu Palace in 10 mins with a Paragon and a few warriors. That is awesome.

    The only build that I have found so far on my rarely used paragon that works is stupendously boring to play.

    "Incoming" doesn't work. For either play. You'd need to have it on 7 chars to be effective.

    3 seconds is pathetic. Especially when Aegis, a non elite monk skill, will last for 10 seconds at 12 prot, and does the same exact thing.

    Also, nerfing all the skills they did to only include party members instead of allies hurt the class. Excluding minions and spirits kills a lot of fun. Yes spirits that can Cripple and Burn hurt, however the majority of PvP'ers seem to say their is tons of great condition removal in the game, and as for PvE both are part of your team and should not be excluded.

  5. #5
    I love my paragon alot but I am sorry, there are too many useless skills.
    "Incoming" MIGHT have been considered "overpowered" in PvP but since the nerf it's a complete waste of a skills slot. There are many, many more but I don't feel like listing all of them as it would take too long.

    For a class with so much potential the lack of usable skills limit it alot.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by seamussheridan View Post
    Please then do start a positive thread on Paragons. One is definitely needed. I saw someone said they did Raisu Palace in 10 mins with a Paragon and a few warriors. That is awesome.
    I took an all paragon team to FOW... and we basically owned everything. The paragon is a great class.

    I do not think there are any 'useless' skills, but some skills are not usefull enough (..or just hyper situational)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivider View Post
    How about instead of making threads constantly promoting the uselessness of the paragon class and skills you do something a little more constructive?

    You can point out more of a positive side of the class and what they can bring out in a group. We all know about the nerfs, balances, and simple changes that has plagued the class. We don't need reminders every week on how YOU think the class doesn't work.

    Not trying to start a fight over the class ( that's been done enough ) I'm just tired of people choosing to show the cons even if they do outweigh the pros. One reason why this section of the GW forums lacks in responses and posts -- all people see is complaining. I know your trying to get constructive criticism but more often it leads to the same place, nowhere. I think tons of people have already voiced there opinions on the state of the class/skills - where ANET takes it from here is out of our hands.
    I hate to say this, but the main reasons why the paragon forum doesn't see a lot of activity is because paragons are weak in pve (gwo being a very pve forum) and generally uninteresting everywhere. Not because people in this forum say the above two things.

    But by all means create a thread for the positive things and I'm sure we'll do our best to chip in.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by cranialexodus View Post
    I hate to say this, but the main reasons why the paragon forum doesn't see a lot of activity is because paragons are weak in pve (gwo being a very pve forum) and generally uninteresting everywhere. Not because people in this forum say the above two things.

    But by all means create a thread for the positive things and I'm sure we'll do our best to chip in.
    Yeah your right I'll see what I can do ( right now at work ) or if someone beats me to it, all is well.

  9. #9

    Huh, that was random

    Quote Originally Posted by cranialexodus View Post
    some uses for the skills you posted -
    can't touch this is the centre of n/p and rt/p, as well as p/rt and possibly p/n, builds for farming ancient armour remnants.
    (desperately needs to be something you can choose who to target with though, would prefer 5 energy cost, 5 second recharge, limited to 1 touch skill, and make the duration scale instead)
    Make haste! and/or Lead the Way! are or have been used for relic running in HA. The former is a very strong skill for running in a duo, the latter is a good method of anti-kiting that doesn't prevent you using stances.
    Nice, good to know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Divider
    How about instead of making threads constantly promoting the uselessness of the paragon class and skills you do something a little more constructive?
    That's exactly what I'm trying to do here. Either show people how things we believe are useless are not (just as cranialexodus did above), or create a good list for Arena Net with things that could be improved about the profession.

    I understand your frustration, but to jump on someone who has ever made two topics in this forum with acusations about "making threads constantly promoting the uselenessness of the paragon" is not going to help the profession.

    (I found a nice Paragon build that is really helping my Paragon in Hard Mode - it's a very n00bsih build for now, but I'm eager to see what it will be like once it's done. I have the feeling I'll use my Paragon to Vanquish Elona - that's the best suited character for such task, IMO.)

    Erasculio
    Last edited by Erasculio; 18-05-2007 at 18:22.

  10. #10
    All PvE stuff for me:

    I agree Incoming is very restrictive these days. I would suggest changing the skill completely to be almost the same as Defensive Anthem and having it end on non-attack skill use or even changing it to reduce damage from all non-attack skill damage with a longer duration.

    Mighty Throw is kinda useless IMO since it takes 3 seconds to use (plus any bug time) which you can instead attack 2 more times in that time doing about the same amount of damage or more depending on other skiklls you use. Sure it flies 3 times faster when you finally do throw it but you'd expect some better added effect rather than a damage bonus that merely makes up for the time spent using the skill. It looks good on paper but performs poorly. Unblockable Throw is kinda in the same boat, you are effectively spending 7 adrenaline for that one skill just to have it not be blocked.

    Some of the other skills have already been mentioned with some good alternatives.

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