Guild wars or... Title Wars?

[Hadin Gar Kain]

Yes it is. If you don't want a title, don't get it. If you don't want to use those skills... don't use them. There's nothing telling you that you need those titles nor the perks of having them. The sooner peeps realise that, the better.

i agree with that.

and the op said they like titles.... so why are you complaining.

congrats to the op for making up a cleaver title to this thread, but has anyone stopped to think that getting titles is fun?!?

imo the addition of all the title based skills is a great way to give everyone something to do. if it wasnt for titles a lot of people would beat the game and then have nothing left to do, titles give you something to do.

[DarkSpirit]

congrats to the op for making up a cleaver title to this thread, but has anyone stopped to think that getting titles is fun?!?

Really? Then why am I feeling so bored with the grind?

I grinded very hard and only managed a rank 3 K/L for both my accounts. I have slowed down alot because it is becoming very boring to grind further. How do you find it fun and what rank have you achieved? You must have achieved a very high rank since you actually enjoy grinding to reach the 10 million factions.

imo the addition of all the title based skills is a great way to give everyone something to do. if it wasnt for titles a lot of people would beat the game and then have nothing left to do, titles give you something to do.

I dont know why you keep saying there is nothing to do. Have you done ALL the side quests in all campaigns yet? Do ALL your characters have level 20 pets yet? Have you completed ALL the quests in UW/FOW/Titan Quests/Deep/Urgoz/DoA/SF yet?

There are lots of more interesting things to do than grind, but unfortunately they are not as rewarding.

[karadoc]

Yes it is. If you don't want a title, don't get it. If you don't want to use those skills... don't use them. There's nothing telling you that you need those titles nor the perks of having them. The sooner peeps realise that, the better.

A lot of people seem to be saying stuff like this, but it seems that this is missing the point.

Titles like "Legendary Guardian" and "Legendary Survivor" are completely optional. If you feel like it, you can go for the titles. If it's fun for you, you can have fun getting them. If you don't like them, you can just ignore them. So everyone should be happy.
But there are other titles, such as the lightbringer track and luxon allegiance track, which are not so optional. Character who have a high rank in these titles are more powerful than characters who don't. So to be the most powerful character possible, one needs to max these titles. It's about as "optional" as reaching level 20 and getting good armour, weapons and skills. Time consuming titles that give significant benefits go against the philosophy of "skill > time".

Furthermore, even if we just stick to the titles that do not have intrinsic benefits, I think the OP is concerned that these titles should not form the basis of all new content for the game. Titles may be fun, but other content could be more interesting.

[kburt]

Arena Net is aiming to ways of rewarding players - and PvE wise, the only real accomplishment players have is earning titles. Finishing a campaign is nice, but it's easy, fast and it already has a reward on its own (Book of Secrets/Amulet of the Mists/seeing the end of the storyline for that chapter). And farming...Reward farming is shooting your own feet, since bots are capable of farming better than human beings.

Is that a bad thing? IMO, no. It all depends of how a title is earned. We have titles that require an unreasonable ammount of grind (Luxon and Kurzick) and titles that don't require any grind to reach decent levels (Sunspear title). If all new GW:EN titles are like the Sunspear title - whatever benefit they give is earned just by playing the game normally, without having to farm them even once - then I don't see any significant grind being introduced into the game. If they are like the Luxon and Kurzick skills, I'll join the wave of complainers.

The problem, IMO, is that the community as a whole is too quick to judge. We know GW:EN is going to have titles for the new factions it has; we know those titles will be earned as we play; we know there are benefits for doing so. Yet that's not a problem, as I mentioned above, as long as there's no grind in getting those titles at a high level (like the Sunspear rank 8 - it's not maximum, but it's enough to make all Sunspear skills powerful, almost as powerful as the maximum). But I doubt the community will wait to see that before judging - and we already have players who know (or think they know) that those titles will be huge grinds and are eager to start complaining about them. The same thing has happened with the change to the favor system - it does not promote grind, but it's going to take a long time before everyone understands this idea.

Erasculio

I never cared about the titles until Anet decided to end GW after GW:EN. Now titles are the only thing that will carry over to GW2 in the hall of monuments. So now it is 11 down 14 to go....

[kburt]

[QUOTE=DarkSpirit;5042349]
I dont know why you keep saying there is nothing to do. Have you done ALL the side quests in all campaigns yet? Do ALL your characters have level 20 pets yet? Have you completed ALL the quests in UW/FOW/Titan Quests/Deep/Urgoz/DoA/SF yet?
QUOTE]

I've done all of those,but none of those things will carry over to GW2. And, after GW:EN it will be like I never played GW at all unless I do something that carries over.
I have been thinking about it ever since Anet decided to make the change to their original concept. We have people joining our guild now who only started playing GW since Nighfall came out. Can you imagine what it will be like 2 years after GW2 comes out? Prophecies, what's that? lol

[Icyangel Strawberry]

Yes everything is optional. In theory, you could use the same armor from pre-ascalon and keep using only that armor. You could use the same skills over and over non stop, finish the game.

However sooner or later, it will get to a point where the game is dull and extremely boring if you keep doing the same thing.
How can anyone get the most money out of this game?
- Some people play for titles *
- Some people farm (in elite area or solo or some spot they like)
- Some people start over and play all professions until the end.
- And maybe more...

But in the end, they are playing at the same locations, and using the same skills over and over. Grinding over the same things is not exciting and entertaining.
This game longevity relies solely on title (=grinding) and most titles force everyone to play the same maps over and over (i.e. Lucky/unlucky/Hero, Gladiator, L/K). Even if you want to farm for gold, you probably end up in the same spot for efficiency. If you want to play with a different character, you still end up doing the same primary quests until the end.
Yes, I heard you. Titles are still optional, but Arenet is trying very hard to give you some incentive to work on titles: Hall of monuments, favors, extra bonus, PvE skills, etc ... It would be so foolish not to do titles "as you are playing along". But all the titles take lots of time. For example, it takes a little over 10,500 runs of Jade Arena to max up the Luxor allegiance from nothing.

In contrast, EQ2 was also into grinding (not sure about now): quests and tradeskills. However the quests were located all over the place, forcing you to venture all kind of different areas. This is what kept me hooked on EQ2 for a long time. Some people were also working on their tradeskills, but tradeskill is like doing 2-3 hours of Jade Arena everyday non stop. It gets quickly dull.

I am not sure about WoW, but I believe they keep it "exciting" by increasing the level cap, adding new and better armors/weapons...

[tawainai daemon]

I am not sure about WoW, but I believe they keep it "exciting" by increasing the level cap, adding new and better armors/weapons...

This is why WoW is an endless grind. Not to mention it is not that optional too since it deeply correlated to your character strength.

Grind is an nessecity in a RRG or maybe everyone should start from level 20 with rare-skinned max items and armor??

Also I think Anet is trying to make grind more "exciting" too.
Grind in GWEN are min-games.
It will not kill monster kill monster kill monster
but upper-cut, go charazard and 1vs1.
What more can Anet do?

[Icyangel Strawberry]

What more can Anet do?

It is 2am so I am just going to give a quick shot at it:

Huge maps (5 times bigger and totally open to go any way anyone want to), random map(diablo2), more quests, better quest reward, titles more accessible, since you seem to like titles ==> a lot more titles (but keep them accessible), more emotes (i.e fame), more different type of monsters, more monsters, some monsters should have some resistance to a particular type of dmg, team of 12-16 players at the same times. tired... gone to bed.

I don't work for Arenet. If I can come up with that much, they should be smart to come up with many more ideas.

[Karadoth]

I'd like to trade skill points for a token to buy L/K faction, I'm fed up with the limited number of ways to earn it and I'm also fed up with experience being pointless.

[DarkSpirit]

This is why WoW is an endless grind. Not to mention it is not that optional too since it deeply correlated to your character strength.

So is GW. Without high level SS and K/L skills, you can still play, just alot weaker. My Focused Anger Paragon with 35% damage reduction (TNTF) and +100 armor (Save Yourselves!) spamming to all party members makes a HUGE difference to party survivability in HM.

In GW:EN, the PvE skills would be even more necessary to get through the storyline.

Also I think Anet is trying to make grind more "exciting" too.
Grind in GWEN are min-games.
It will not kill monster kill monster kill monster
but upper-cut, go charazard and 1vs1.
What more can Anet do?

More "bearable" is more like it. I doubt they can make it more exciting.