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  1. #51
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    I was under the impression the Orrian undead were under the control of the dragon who raises Orr (just like the destroyers were under the control of Primordus) and creates a subsequent undead navy from the sunken corsair ships. Are the Orrian undead in GW1 different than the Orrian undead in the risen Orr?

  2. #52
    the first set of orrian undead were made by the lich. the second set were made by the undead dragon of orr. although it makes me wonder, if when we killed the lich he lost power over his minions like regular necro's then how come they kept on fighting right up to gwen and beyond. did the dragon of orr see an opportunity and take it? or is the lich's power still controlling them?

  3. #53
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    OK, excuse my ignorance, I'm getting confused. Isn't the Lich the same as Vizer Kihlborn? The reason I ask is because I do not remember the Lich or the Vizer calling upon the Orrian undead??? I remember the Lich calling on the Titans when they're released, all the creatures guarding the portals on the fire islands, and Rurik. And, if I remember correctly the Vizer calls up grasp and phantoms in the Sanctum Cay mission. I just don't recall any Orrian undead being used by either??
    Please, help me out here.....

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by kburt View Post
    OK, excuse my ignorance, I'm getting confused. Isn't the Lich the same as Vizer Kihlborn? The reason I ask is because I do not remember the Lich or the Vizer calling upon the Orrian undead???
    To the first question, yes, Vizier Khilbron is the Lich (what made you wonder otherwise?).

    To the second question, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking why you've never seen the Lich summon Orrian undead? The obvious answer to that is he doesn't have to. The summoning of undead performed by the Lich is used to bring them to his location when he requires them - the other undead go around carrying out their orders in different locations, since the Lich doesn't need them to be where he is at all times. (Besides, it would be kind of a dead give-a-way if an army of undead followed Khilbron wherever he went.) The undead don't need to be 'called' to exist - they just need to be called when the Lich needs something of them.

  5. #55
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    Sorry, didn't mean to be vague. Where do we see the Orrian undead interacting with the Lich or Vizer in any way? I know the were basically created when the Vizer read the scroll and destroyed Orr. But, I wasn't aware they were still connected after the event. I guess I had always just taken it that they roamed around kind of lost without their homeland??? I kind of compare them to what we read about those killed when Ascalon City is destroy by the old king. They just basically keep doing what they were doing up to the point of their death. Which was protecting Ascalon.
    Am I way off here?

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kburt View Post
    Sorry, didn't mean to be vague. Where do we see the Orrian undead interacting with the Lich or Vizer in any way? I know the were basically created when the Vizer read the scroll and destroyed Orr. But, I wasn't aware they were still connected after the event. I guess I had always just taken it that they roamed around kind of lost without their homeland???
    Considering they've conducted a full-scale invasion of Kryta, the Orrian undead are not disorganized or lost, and hence appear to have a leader. The Prophecies manual even indicates that the undead have motivations, a chain of command, and follow the Undead Lich (or at least there were rumours that they do - which ultimately proved true).

    As for the possible alternate explanation you presented (i.e. that they continue what they were doing at the time of death), it could be argued that the Orrian undead are reliving the Guild Wars. But that would fail to explain why the undead armies haven't invaded Ascalon, one of Orr's enemies in the Guild Wars, as well. So, it seems they aren't motivated by the Guild Wars - the only possible motivation for their united invasion of Kryta is a singular leader: the Lich.

  7. #57
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    Thank you for your time and patience with this. Guess I need to go back and do some more study??? I guess when I read about the dragon under Orr controlling the undead I just picked up and ran with it.....

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by kburt View Post
    Sorry, didn't mean to be vague. Where do we see the Orrian undead interacting with the Lich or Vizer in any way? I know the were basically created when the Vizer read the scroll and destroyed Orr. But, I wasn't aware they were still connected after the event. I guess I had always just taken it that they roamed around kind of lost without their homeland??? I kind of compare them to what we read about those killed when Ascalon City is destroy by the old king. They just basically keep doing what they were doing up to the point of their death. Which was protecting Ascalon.
    Am I way off here?
    Infact you see the lich summoning a couple of undead in a cinematic in Sanctum Cay.

  9. #59
    I think the issue is that there may very well be a distinction between control and creation. The Undead Dragon of Orr may have been what caused the dead to rise after the cataclysm, but he may still have been dormant, thus unable to exert control. Similar, presumably, to the curse of the nornbear - dormant beings causing unnatural effects through external influence.

    The other thing is, the Scepter of Orr. We don't know who made it. It may very well be that it's a product of the undead dragon. There's another Omnipotent Stick Of Almighty Power, if you recall, and Abaddon's forces were doing their best to retrieve that, too. It was mentioned that the Scepter controlled the Titans, but that's not really the case. The Titans followed, on the command of Abaddon/Menzies (was it ever resolved who in the unholy trifector created what?), whoever had the Scepter. A bit like a teacher telling pupils only to listen to who has a ball.

    As for the factions of undead, I'd put it down to instinct. Throughout many ghost stories and such, there's tales of beings who are tied to their previous life - ghosts of maids cleaning a house, zombies following a routine, etc. The Orrians may have been very well trained, and there was nothing about them adapted when they changed to a state of undeath - they followed whoever ruled, and that rule may have been defined by the scepter (who's to say the King or Queen didn't consider it a token of their rule, a sacred object sent from the Gods?). The Desolation Army, however, was full of enslaved races, bickering provinces and contemptuous chiefs. Similar to how Rurik is forced into fighting you but wishes he didn't have to, the armies of Palawa were forced labour, bound in death but maybe hoping for release.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowReapr View Post
    I think the issue is that there may very well be a distinction between control and creation. The Undead Dragon of Orr may have been what caused the dead to rise after the cataclysm, but he may still have been dormant, thus unable to exert control. Similar, presumably, to the curse of the nornbear - dormant beings causing unnatural effects through external influence.

    The other thing is, the Scepter of Orr. We don't know who made it. It may very well be that it's a product of the undead dragon. There's another Omnipotent Stick Of Almighty Power, if you recall, and Abaddon's forces were doing their best to retrieve that, too. It was mentioned that the Scepter controlled the Titans, but that's not really the case. The Titans followed, on the command of Abaddon/Menzies (was it ever resolved who in the unholy trifector created what?), whoever had the Scepter. A bit like a teacher telling pupils only to listen to who has a ball.

    As for the factions of undead, I'd put it down to instinct. Throughout many ghost stories and such, there's tales of beings who are tied to their previous life - ghosts of maids cleaning a house, zombies following a routine, etc. The Orrians may have been very well trained, and there was nothing about them adapted when they changed to a state of undeath - they followed whoever ruled, and that rule may have been defined by the scepter (who's to say the King or Queen didn't consider it a token of their rule, a sacred object sent from the Gods?). The Desolation Army, however, was full of enslaved races, bickering provinces and contemptuous chiefs. Similar to how Rurik is forced into fighting you but wishes he didn't have to, the armies of Palawa were forced labour, bound in death but maybe hoping for release.
    Sorry to nitpick, but we do know who/what created the Scepter of Orr and the Scepter of the Mists. The Gods did, they gave them to two kings if I remember correctly. One of which we already know, the King of Orr, but the other we can only suspect belonged to a Primeval King as it is found in the Desolation.

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