Which would you run?

[woot im a warrior]

My guild has been using a dual e surge build for the past week, and we really like it so far, but it is missing snares which leads to a lot of problems.

Please let me know which you would run and why:

For frontline:
Option 1-
1 shock axe
1 earth shaker

Option 2-
1 shock axe
1 D dagger axe

Option 3-
1 shock axe
1 melandru derv


For midline:
Option 1-
Water ele (water trident, freezing gust, frozen burst, blurred vision, draw conditions, glyph of lesser energy, water attunement, rez sig)

Option 2-
P/W defensive anthem


For flagger:
Option 1-
Rt/A

Option 2-
SoR water ele


These bars don't change:
Me/Rt (E surge, e burn, diversion, p leak, p drain, shatter enchantment, inspired enchantment, flesh of my flesh)

Me/E (E surge, e burn, diversion, p leak, shatter enchantment, glyph of lesser energy, ward vs melee, *optional* [usually shame or rez])

LoD monk

RC monk

[Tsai Cooper]

op 1 or 2 for frontline
both have impressive snares, but d daggers versaility makes up for its lack of an independent KD
either or, imo

If you needs snares, Trident is natural. use it.
Rt/A pwns. i'd use it, but the water runner has snares...
not sure on that one
SoD on monk, not RC, imo. Esurge neuters monks, but the warrios can still bash skulls, no? As such, SoD is ftw

[woot im a warrior]

op 1 or 2 for frontline
both have impressive snares, but d daggers versaility makes up for its lack of an independent KD
either or, imo

If you needs snares, Trident is natural. use it.
Rt/A pwns. i'd use it, but the water runner has snares...
not sure on that one
SoD on monk, not RC, imo. Esurge neuters monks, but the warrios can still bash skulls, no? As such, SoD is ftw

The reason for RC over SoD is that we have good monks who pre-prot with guardian, and have also been facing heavy condition teams 80% of the time. Right now, in the level of play we are currently in it is best to take RC.

SoD is also overkill with ward vs melee/DA/aegis chain. If we run the water ele instead of the DA para then it also wouldn't be a big problem if he is keeping the warriors snared like he should be doing.

[David Holtzman]

Always always have a ddagger somewhere in the build. The ability for warriors to get DA, to interrupt sig return, deathpact and humsig is game deciding.

For the midline: consider an E/Rt or a cripshot. I am not a fan of the paragon since it makes you very vulnerable on splits, and I'm not a fan of midline water eles with the prevalence of HEV. Cripshot is nice if he knows how to play and your people can kite. If not, then a Bsurge is the way to go. With an E/Rt you can give him splinter/ancestors to play around with which will help your frontline pressure people out (the Me/E, E/Rt midline combo is what we've been running in [peso] and I'm very happy with it).

For the backline, it sorta depends on what you do in the midline. If you take the E/Rt then a Rt flagger is pointless. Far better to have an E/Mo who can take along extinguish (40HSR prot set = gg condy builds) if you're running into lots of condyspam. If you don't take the rt in the midline and desperately want splinter, you can always run a Rt/E with storm djinns and a snare of some sort- be it gust or shackles.

[woot im a warrior]

Always always have a ddagger somewhere in the build. The ability for warriors to get DA, to interrupt sig return, deathpact and humsig is game deciding.

For the midline: consider an E/Rt or a cripshot. I am not a fan of the paragon since it makes you very vulnerable on splits, and I'm not a fan of midline water eles with the prevalence of HEV. Cripshot is nice if he knows how to play and your people can kite. If not, then a Bsurge is the way to go. With an E/Rt you can give him splinter/ancestors to play around with which will help your frontline pressure people out (the Me/E, E/Rt midline combo is what we've been running in [peso] and I'm very happy with it).

For the backline, it sorta depends on what you do in the midline. If you take the E/Rt then a Rt flagger is pointless. Far better to have an E/Mo who can take along extinguish (40HSR prot set = gg condy builds) if you're running into lots of condyspam. If you don't take the rt in the midline and desperately want splinter, you can always run a Rt/E with storm djinns and a snare of some sort- be it gust or shackles.

With those suggestions I think we will go with the cripshot and rt flagger, along with the shock axe/d dagger axe frontline.

PS: Starting today, I am going to be the caller so we should be doing a lot better (our regular caller was a core midline, and doesn't have the warrior mentality as I am sure you are aware of from the times you guested).

[Tsai Cooper]

I am not a fan of the paragon since it makes you very vulnerable on splits

explain pl0x. i dont get that.
cripshot=trident
i just think the KD has more to bring to the table.

[woot im a warrior]

explain pl0x. i dont get that.
cripshot=trident
i just think the KD has more to bring to the table.

Paragons can't split.

I don't think he had a problem with the water ele, he just doesn't like it because of how many teams run HEV.

[Wet One]

With those suggestions I think we will go with the cripshot and rt flagger, along with the shock axe/d dagger axe frontline.

PS: Starting today, I am going to be the caller so we should be doing a lot better (our regular caller was a core midline, and doesn't have the warrior mentality as I am sure you are aware of from the times you guested).

Just a side note on this comment:

There are VERY VERY VERY few warriors in this game that actually call strat and play W well @ the same time, Pally being one of the only ones that comes to mind ATM, but i know there are 2-3 others. More times than not, if a dedicated strat caller is used, and is actually good @ calling strat they are doing it from a midline position because due to the nature of the midline they should have good overall field awareness.

As a side note reguarding your crip shot:

If the person playing CS is not super used to playing that position ask your monks to help him out. Because he can either crip offensively (the target which the warriors currently have called/interupting LoD/DA) or defensively cripping enemy warriors, interupting diversions/DA etc. A general rule of thumb i used to go by was if my team party health was >80% i played the CS offensively and if it was <80% of played defensively. But that is not set in stone and sometimes pushing really hard offensively even though you have low health can break the other team first.

explain pl0x. i dont get that.
cripshot=trident
i just think the KD has more to bring to the table.

Water trident is not the same thing as CS at all. CS provides party wide degen. It provides a splittable char with a self heal that is very durable and also packs 2 quick recharging unconditional interupts. Water trident is a projectile which good people stop before getting hit by and thus negate the KD ~50% of the time if not more. Also, in a match with a CS @ the stand and the other team having a water ele @ the stand... the water ele will get eaten up alive if thats what the ranger decides to sit on.

[woot im a warrior]

Just a side note on this comment:

There are VERY VERY VERY few warriors in this game that actually call strat and play W well @ the same time, Pally being one of the only ones that comes to mind ATM, but i know there are 2-3 others. More times than not, if a dedicated strat caller is used, and is actually good @ calling strat they are doing it from a midline position because due to the nature of the midline they should have good overall field awareness.

I am used to calling as a warrior, I only really run into problems when I have to micro manage people, call, and warrior at the same time. Having a midliner call would most likely be best, but we don't have any core members that really understand how dual e surge is supposed to be played. (Once we find someone who can, then I will gladly let them call)

As a side note reguarding your crip shot:

If the person playing CS is not super used to playing that position ask your monks to help him out. Because he can either crip offensively (the target which the warriors currently have called/interupting LoD/DA) or defensively cripping enemy warriors, interupting diversions/DA etc. A general rule of thumb i used to go by was if my team party health was >80% i played the CS offensively and if it was <80% of played defensively. But that is not set in stone and sometimes pushing really hard offensively even though you have low health can break the other team first.

Without the DA para and lack of defense since we are running dual e surge I think it would be best to use defensively, and only offensively when we need it. Also since it is dual e surge we should* almost always be pushing.

*our previous caller would want everyone to fall back at the slightest sign of trouble even though the other teams monks were pressured and usually caused us to wipe, or cause a few people to die.

[Tsai Cooper]

Water trident is not the same thing as CS at all. CS provides party wide degen. It provides a splittable char with a self heal that is very durable and also packs 2 quick recharging unconditional interupts. Water trident is a projectile which good people stop before getting hit by and thus negate the KD ~50% of the time if not more. Also, in a match with a CS @ the stand and the other team having a water ele @ the stand... the water ele will get eaten up alive if thats what the ranger decides to sit on.

WT isnt the only skill on a WT bar...
THATS what makes it good