Assassin's Role in GvG

[Simply Kedde]

pure npc killing

No.

consider full degen builds

No.

kiting while KDed

Not possible sir.

Crippling dagger works if you don't mind the half range. Siphon speed is good to support the chain too. Winters embrace

None of these are very good at all.

Footmen are pushovers. Also, don't worry about troll unguent. By the time the archer activates it, he should be dead. knights can be pulled and killed if the opposing team is unattentive. Bodyguards can be killed too.

This applies to any split template, but the thing is, any other split template will also be useful at doing other things.

You need to stop thinking solo this, solo that, solo everything.

If you're splitting, by definition, your team is either built for it, or it's forced.

If the first is true, you're not going to split alone, in which case your build is pretty much useless.
It won't kill defenders, has no party support excet bad snares that are easily cleared by either FF or PnH nowadays.
It's also extremely bad for your team when forced into 7v7 or 8v8 fights.

If the second scenario is true, you won't have an assasin anyways, since they're bad at stand fights and will need to be in a teambuild made for splitting.

The only really half-viable assasin template at the moment is WC:

[wastrel's collapse][falling spider][horns of the ox][falling lotus strike][twisting fangs][shock][conjure lightning][Dash]

This bar is an actual threat to defenders and npc's being defended as well as for skirmishes and short duration 8v8 play during collapses.

Also, why res a thread that has clearly concluded everything there is to conclude?

[Kael Valeran]

ok, to your comments

yes, people can kite a KD chain, It takes a second long for iron palm to strike. With an ims and constant kiting, they will avoid falling spider. I tried this a few times already, this is made worse on slopes.

OP mentioned his role of solo and prep for GL rush, thats the build i'm suggesting

This build might fail against defenders, but consider the time to kill an npc, 6-8 seconds. When they arrive, recall will put your main team, which is the team of 5 and 2, considering u have a split in this order.

5:2:1
or
4:3:1

A monk will be migrating between both teams. Your recall is very important to be placed with this migrating monk. This is so that, when you remove recall, you'll be in the vincinity of the team that requires support the most.

This build has rather good synergy for soloing and i must agree many builds out there are better when forced into an 8:8 scenario. But honestly, 8v8 is very prone to spike. Its meant to take down non-defenders. Iron palm as a KD and interrupt is pretty useful.

My suggestion for the split is:
5 (pressure)
2 (spike)
1 (split)
Each team focusing on a certain aspect of the game.

Yes, i've been out of the metagame for pretty long now, but i was in a R50 guild which prioritised on splits. I do know some stuff... though not as much as you i guess. lol.

eg. last of masters in last pride. There are times when he soloed his way out with gash, sever artery and final thrust to take down 2-3 tower npcs at one go with a constant degen and only a single healing signet. He was also the first who used aura of displacement + contemplation of purity, getting rid of conditions spam right after his assa spike, and taking down tower npcs with his sin.

The meta may have changed, but degen is still useful against npcs, especially when they don't have a self heal. seeping wound had a new change, 15 dps

The build damage is based on degen, but there are utility skills as well. Running(flag), snaring, knockdown, deep wound. It may not be brilliant when a team is denied split tactics, but the team of 7 can play a more team reliant role in this case, without needing to dedicate 2 people in a split when one can be used to take down npcs and assist in running the flag (AOD at flag spawning place.). Damage from the spike is also powerful enough to contribute when a team needs to play a stronger spiking role.

Oh well. I also noticed that PnH and FF is quite a pain. I never checked skill changes. During my gvg time, everyone was playing protective spirit and mend condition. Who would ever touch an elite for condition removal? Question is, if a monk brings such a powerful condition and hex removal skill, what happens if he is shut down. *wonder*. Is ff very popular? Does adding fragility to the nec work? Prolly not, cuz fragility sucks. dang.

[Simply Kedde]

Wow.

Get some updates.
Those things were outdated about 3 years ago.

What the OP stated really doesn't matter too much since that won't ever work at anything higher than r5k.
You aim to play builds that'll allow you to beat players better than you, not to more easily beat people that are even worse than yourself.

No matter how fast a build can take down an NPC, it won't matter as long as said build can't also compete in effectiveness with several other things.

This can't, and it sure isn't anywhere near a threat to any single character you could possibly find running randomly around the map, at least not more so than any other splitty template.

A team of 5 can't pressure by themselves, doesn't happen.
The question is how long they'll stay alive.

There is no viable physical shutdown at the moment so they'll explode very soon.

It'll then be up to your split of 2 man to take down enough of their base to be a direct threat to their lord so they might actually bother defending it with more than a flagger.

You're not really wanting to send your own flagger to assist the split since you'll need to shuttle flags as well as need the defense against their offense and defense in their boat is rather useless.

In the odd situation that they might act offensively and collapse on your split, you still won't have enough damage to do anything in the small timeframe of maybe ~10 seconds where they're down 1 or 2 people with templates like the one you suggested.

It simply doesn't do near enough damage to make it worthwhile considering it can't do anything else efficiently.

If you want to discuss old school splits, well fine.
If you want a slightly newer one the EviL or WM or any others back then, take the "eurosplit" templates we had a couple years back.

A BA ranger and a YAA! warrior coupled with the SoR/water flagger.
It worked because it was a threat to defenders as well as able to reasonably quickly take down most NPC's.

What has also changed is that NPC's mean nothing at all.
Taking them down is of absolutely no use other than giving an extra amount of time to spend in their base next time.

You have to directly threaten their lord.

Back then, noone in their right mind ever went for the lord, but NPC's still mattered a lot because of VoD!

[Kael Valeran]

Back then, noone in their right mind ever went for the lord, but NPC's still mattered a lot because of VoD!

Oh. VoD doesn't exist anymore. hmm. i can't seem to get that out of my head cuz i never played gvg without VOD.

Seems like i must have overestimated the participation of NPCs. You're right, degen is no good here.

Trivia: last of masters did play solo when against npcs, killing while the other team distracts. With maps like imperial isles, there doesn't seem to have the 'fortress feel' and the travel distance is very short.

This makes the role of sins questionable, when truly, they excel at movement speed. If one were to fill a slot in a group of 7, what would it be.... hmm... i can't find a place to fit a sin cuz mesmers are purely the better choice. Oh well, at least they can drop kegs.

hmm. btw is gvg still fun?

[David Holtzman]

Not possible sir.

This actually is possible, but only with AoD, Shadowmeld, Recall, or Shadowalk active. Otherwise, you are right and he is wrong. Pure degen for killing NPCs... unbelievable.

[Simply Kedde]

I don't see shadowstepping while kd'd as anything resembling kiting.
Since that's my clear definition, moving while kd'd is impossible and makes his statement wrong.

GvG is still fun if you care to play a fun build the majority of the time.

I look forward to nerfs to all this overpowered **** so we can play byob in tombs again for glorious times.

[David Holtzman]

I once pulled the shadowalk trip on augie while he was on his linebacker, sitting on me. I definitely think that counts as kiting.

[Simply Kedde]

Specific singled out cases that count as exceptions to the rules.

That reminds me of how annoying it is to use shadowsteps and still get hit by kd's after you move.

[Kael Valeran]

good thing is, a snare prevents this from happening. It isn't rare. Happens 1 in 3 times for me. the falling spider won't land on time.

[Akirai Annuvil]

hmm. btw is gvg still fun?

Wait till the next balance update.