That is true..If you look at it closely..
There is a slight catch with this one (Amantis and Konig you guys are really quite close) and that is while the letters do translate to English characters, those characters will still look and sound like gibberish, because it IS gibberish. Well, at least it would be gibberish to us earthlings...and uhhh....things of this nature. I don't want to waste any more of your valuable time. ;-)-Matthew Medina.Originally Posted by Matthew's talk page
Cut out certain parts that may throw us off:
Originally Posted by Matthew MedinaIt would be gibberish to things of this nature. I don't want to waste your valuable time.Originally Posted by Matthew Medina
We have a distinct understanding of time and its progression, so perhaps it's an abstract message regarding time itself? It's not like we haven't had an Asura pondering time travel or anything...
Originally Posted by Glayvin
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21-02-2010, 11:24 #41
21-02-2010, 13:06 #42
Based on other descriptions of the Asura, especially Ree and Jeff's little comment about their surnames, by gibberish to earthlings, I think he meant that it is an unusual saying/phrase which would make little sense to people unless it is explained (just how Asuras don't have surnames, but instead use the titles of their job).
In other words, we have to think out of the box from where we left off (as Matt said that my and Amantis' thoughts were very close, going off of those) in order to figure it out.
21-02-2010, 13:24 #43
I think you may be lending too much weight to his usage of earthlings, personally, but that's just me. That aside, I don't know that this will help in any way, but I extracted the unique letters from the two banners to try and help examination of them, and inserted a cursive chart of capital letters to compare to, to see if there are any similarities we're overlooking.
As a note, where you and Amantis have thought those repeated symbols at the end of the second and first words on the banners are As, I've consistently thought them Xs, which I don't think I mentioned earlier. This doesn't change it drastically, but it does make it gibble more.
Edit: Here's what I get out of it, through looking at it (but since he said you two are close, I'm likely off):
Q ZCYRX TXLGKL YXL
ZCYRX JILSX PX_L YXL
If you're wondering where I get the R in the second and first word, it's from where the two points from the Y and the A (or X) almost meet. They form the cursive lower case R very well. I've stuck with Z at the beginning, but in an actual comparison, it obviously doesn't match up well. I'd say it's closer to capital Q, but that doesn't click with my interpretation of the first character being Q, so I didn't go with it.
Instead, I split it up into Z and C, as the central part of the Z certainly looks similar to a C, if you ask me.
SpoilerSecond Edit: After looking around a bit, I've found that, if this was written in entirely capital letters, it could be similar to Uncial Script, which uses some characters that look somewhat similar to the letters we see here.
E.g: ς ζ Φ
The issue I'm finding, though, is that they don't translate character for character.
της ζυμης των αρτων των Φαρισαιων και Σαδδουκαιων (leaven of bread of the Pharisees and Sadducees)
So..The may be integrated into the word Pharisees..But Leaven is split into two character sets..Perhaps I'm putting more thought into it than necessary though.
Third Edit: I'm just in a data-gatherer mindset, so apologies for the many edits, but I've found that our mysterious first character is also similar in appearance to the 21st letter, Phi, in Greek. It's used for a variety of meanings, but I am including only those that I suspect may relate to the Asura:
The magnetic flux and electric flux in physics, with subscripts distinguishing the two.
The number of phases in a power system in electrical engineering, for example 1Φ for single phase, 3Φ for three phase.
On an alternate note, it is also a symbol used to represent Philosophy.
Although, it holds more significant similarity to Theta Θ, which is used a symbol for the following:
Dimensionless temperature in transport phenomena.
As a variable indicating Temperature difference in Heat Transfer
Brain Signal Frequency (Beta, Alpha, Theta, Delta) ranging from 4–8 Hz. (Doubt this is what it was used for, but humorous coincidence considering the appearance similarity. Golem A.I. anyone?)
22-02-2010, 03:10 #44
overlapping letters? That's... very possible (and outside of the box :p). I see where you got x instead of a - especially since the "a" is two lines would make an x more or less, but are very closely shaped to an a...
And I have thought of greek, though I could never find a good online translation source for it.
I'll need to get a drawing sheet, to write out the overlapping letters out to make sure it makes sense, but I think you may be going in the right direction. It is at least worth looking into.
After we pull out the overlapping part, and the non-overlapping part, I think we should take it through various ciphers to see if it becomes ungibberish.
22-02-2010, 03:19 #45
I think all that data gathering finally caught up with me. Took me nineteen minutes to untangle a mental knot just now...That aside, let's keep in mind that it's still going to appear like gibberish to us. It may not exactly be a cipher..It may even simply be a rearrangement of the letters.
Edit: Actually, never mind rearranging letters..There are still remnants of that mental knot I've untangling on the subconscious level.
22-02-2010, 07:03 #46
Ok, a few final thoughts. Has anyone considered that maybe there are still more banners/artifacts/etc out there? Tomorrow when I get on I am going to use TexMod's texture grabber to scourge around Rata Sum and other asuran areas to find potential other locations. I know Matthew said that there was only one out there, but we've already found two so who knows.
Another suggestion: this thing has been analyzed extensively reading from left to right English-style, so maybe by "gibberish" he means that the banner must be read from right to left like Arabic, since the writing is (at least in my opinion) remotely similar to it. One last thing: as the cancelled GW Utopia, from which much of the Tarnished Coast was taken from, was based on the cultures and environments of South America, maybe we should be looking more closely at South American language systems (although, I must admit, the writing looks nothing like the blocky logosyllabic glyphs of the Mayans and nothing like the Khipu knots of the Inca, the two predominate cultures that the Asura are based on, and I'm not familiar enough with ancient South American languages to compare it to more than those).
I wish I could be of more help than giving suggestions, but my skill level doesn't reach much farther than TexModding in-game. Sorry for any typos, I'm typing on my phone and I'm way too exhausted to reread my writing. Good luck, I'll post again if I find anything.
22-02-2010, 19:04 #47
This is probably not the case in this exercise but it might be good to keep in mind the fact that some languages, when written, exclude all the vowels. This is common in most Semitic languages, as I understand it. So it's possible that all we're seeing with these Asuran characters are just the consonants and we'll have to figure out where and how to add the vowels on our own.
That seems like it would be a devilish kind of complication for ANet to throw in there for us but it certainly would be a fascinating twist.
25-02-2010, 15:30 #48
I spent a good hour last night with the images flipping and reversing them in photoshop looking for something that made sense. Nada. I separated the letters and did the same simple alphabet decode that others have been doing - complete gibberish.
28-02-2010, 13:51 #49
Maybe flipping and/or reversing isn't the way to go. It could be the one character that resembles a O with a slash through it might be a clue. Maybe each character has to be turned clockwise a certain number of degrees until the slash in the O is perfectly horizontal, or vertical. Hell for all I know the slash could mean don't turn clockwise IE: counter-clockwise.
Last edited by Demonia; 28-02-2010 at 13:55.
28-02-2010, 18:17 #50
I was also thinking that the 'O' may not be a letter at all - maybe a name or a reference to eternal alchemy itself - it looks like the little galaxy marker you see on star maps. Now I know the creator of the banner says it is an actual alphabet, so probably wrong, but *shrug*. I'd offer a reward for solving this, but I know lore people are rarely motivated by money - most are looking at this puzzle because they are curious and there's no price tag on that.