Look at the avatar of Melandru. Look at Melandru's statue. Which, if either, is the image of the real Melandru? Likewise with Lyssa, Grenth, and Balthazar. We have no idea of their true appearance.
For that matter, we can't prove that our views of Abaddon and Dhuum aren't simply images they choose to project as a means of making themselves visible to mortals in a comprehensible manner. We can only prove that Kormir was human because we were there, and we can't prove that she didn't simply project a comforting image for us once she gained her powers.
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28-07-2010, 17:34 #11
- Isle of Janthir
- The Fuzzy Physics Institute
29-07-2010, 09:42 #12
Secondly, Margonites are not a race - they are former humans who were transformed into demonic entities. They are akin to Ewan and his tribe, the Druids, and the Wardens - all three being former humans were changed, though in their case into plant-like beings (excluding Druids, who are now plant-looking spirits).
Also, harpies are believed to have once served Dwayna - this is just a legend among the Elonian people.
29-07-2010, 10:06 #13
Actually, there's no confirmation the Wardens were ever humans, it's just speculated in in-game lore (as well as out-of-game) that they may have been.
29-07-2010, 10:44 #14
True, it's their similarities to humans along with that in-universe speculation that confuses me. But the point stands that Margonites are what Kurzicks think the Wardens are.
29-07-2010, 13:41 #15
You're 100% right on the second part.
29-07-2010, 13:50 #16
I reckon Tim's on the money with what God means - semantics are always the killer and the only knowledge we have is from the in game lore - not what we know from an actual metaphysical overseer (ie the developers).
Gods have been defined by those who follow them (ergo Saul D'Alessio) - who is to say that that the main troupe are indeed actually 'gods' - especially in light of the Elder Dragons.
29-07-2010, 15:36 #17
There are, essentially, two uses of the term god in the universe of Tyria.
There is the title god - a title the destroyers, titans, that one skale in Istan, and mursaat each held and what Baelfire hopes to obtain. This merely means something that is worshiped. Then there is the actual gods - we don't know their full power or all they can do, but they are at least on par to the Elder Dragons. There seems to be only two "groups" of gods - the Six Gods and the Great Dwarf. Though the later might have just been exaggerated like the Six Gods were and is not a god but a hero.
The Elder Dragons have never been called gods, so until they are called gods, they are not. They might rival the Six Gods, but they are not gods in of themselves. Yet.
Until the Elder Dragons are called gods, they are not. One can speculate them to be gods, but that means nothing in the grand scale of things.
And do note, I never said "the Elder Dragons are not gods" - I said "thus far, the Elder Dragons have not been stated to be gods."
29-07-2010, 15:45 #18
There is nothing that suggest that the "true Gods" are anything more than just a group of very powerful beings. Name but even *one* piece of evidence that proves they are more than just interdimensial creatures.
"Gods" is a null word. There are only "title Gods", as you called them. Nothing more.
(imo of course, if everybody agreed with this, none of those pesky religions would even exist).
30-07-2010, 04:15 #19
That is easily the case in reality, but not easily the case in GW. Although we're finding out that the Six Gods/Human Gods are not as powerful as once seemed through human legends, they are still more powerful than anything else.
For one, their power can turn seas into deserts (Crystal Desert) and poison lands (the Desolation). They can grant magic to the races of Tyria (this is still undisputed) and limit the use of magic for everyone else (bloodstones). There's still nothing to imply the gods didn't create humanity or the Forgotten, or even other races that are not stated to have existed prior to the humans/gods arrival on Tyria (races known being charr, dwarves, seers, mursaat, Elder Dragons, and giganticus lupicus - as to the arrival on Tyria, that's all we have for their origins, but tell me does the use of "Tyria" mean the world or the continent? It could very well mean the continent meaning that humanity originated from Tyria the world and not from some other world, though Bahltek implies otherwise - same goes for the gods).
If you can provide information for a group of beings who have created races (and I don't mean twisting things into mindless creatures like the Elder Dragons), or have transformed creatures from one thing to another (humans->demons; humans->plants is what the gods have done), then I'll be further inclined to think the Six Gods are not gods.
Until disproven, they are - to think otherwise is speculation. That's how I see it.
30-07-2010, 04:44 #20