Winter is Coming (Song of Ice and Fire TV)

[The Pointless]

- The whole displaying Renly's homosexual stuff? It is so incredible unimportant for the things to come, so I do not know, why there is such an effort to drag this into length and make up scenes around it.

It would explain a couple of later things in the book to a degree, though, if they think to include those in the series.


Posted from my cyberbrain. There may be typos.

[Gorani]

It would explain a couple of later things in the book to a degree, though, if they think to include those in the series.

Don't read if you don't know what The Pointless is probably hinting at:

Spoiler

I think you talk about the assumption that Margaery in the books is considered to be still a virgin, as she is 15 (slightly older than Sansa and twice the age of Natalie Dormer) at the time of her wedding to Renly and that virginity plays a role when Cersei makes her accusations much later in the series. IIRC Renly and she did not spend as much time together, as she stays behind when he marches against Kings Landing.

5:20 min is quite a long time for something I find pretty irrelevant, but that's just my opinion.

PS: This episode clearly shows a problem we will have in future episodes as well; some major characters just do not have time to appear, like Danaerys and Davos/Melisande/Stannis, as well as Rob and his fighting in the north.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

There's also going to be a serious continuety problem due to the creators of the show having Joffrey order the singer's tongue to be removed (in season 1), since he is a character that doesn't lose his tongue in the book, and becomes pretty important later on.

Also, the House of the Undying has been confirmed! Dany is definately going there. Fans of the books rejoice! Also, the actor playing Drogo in the first season is rumoured to make a cameo during a flashback scene somewhere this season. If I were to guess where, I would guess he appears during one of the visions in the House of the Undying.

There is also a sad rumour that the original actor playing The Mountain in the first season, won't be playing him in this season, due to scheduling conflicts.

[Buddah]

And Sean Bean returns for the recording of season 2:

Loved it. Always wonder if Sean Bean will ever store an iconic role where he gets to be in a sequel.

Spoiler

Looks like the Barathien brother's fight got moved to Storms End. Guess it saves time in the end condensing two separate killing by shadows into one.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

Just saw episode 4, spoilers ahead.

Spoiler

I enjoyed this episode a lot. First of all, Harrenhal looks creepy as hell. It really does look like it could be a haunted castle, ravaged by dragons in a long distant past. And Qarth looks stunning. I'm so impressed by how good and convincing they manage to make all the locations look.

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I'm glad they also showed the torture scenes in Harrenhal, and Arya doing her nightly prayers. I didn't hear her mention the Tickler, although the man doing the torture is supposed to be the Tickler if I'm not mistaken.

Dany finally reaches the city of Qarth, which looks stunning. The Thirteen are also well cast, and look at those stunning costumes. They really went all out here with the costume department. Xaro Xhoan Daxos is well cast as well. I'm glad we are seeing more black actors in the far east of Essos, and hope to see a lot more. I always imagined Qarth in the books to be a blend between Afrika and the Middle East.

I don't remember the prostitute scene with Joffrey, but it does fit his character. It has often been said that HBO seems to add a lot of sex to Game of Thrones where it is not needed, and I think this is certainly an example. But on the other hand, this did give us another great scene with Joffrey's sadism on display. Any scene that makes us hate Joffrey even more is a great addition.

Another thing that was clearly added, and wasn't in the book, is Littlefinger visiting Catherine. But I really liked this addition for two reasons. First of all, it helps the audience understand Littlefinger's relation to Catherine (we only got one such scene in the first season) and developes his character. Second, it helps us understand Catherine's emotions better. In the book a lot of these things play out in the head of a POV character, and Catherine is such a POV character. Obviously you can't do this on tv. So having Catherine instead talk to another character is an excellent way to allow the audience to understand her decission to disobey Robb (I think even those that haven't read the books should now see this coming). Tyrion thinks that with a gesture of good will (delivering Ned's bones) he can convince Catherine to release Jamie (something Robb will never do). The Starks all believe that Starks should be buried beneath Winterfell in the tombs where we saw Ned and Robert visit during the first season (the very first thing Robert did during his visit to Winterfell, was visit his dead wife in those tombs). This will give Catherine some way to deal with her grief for Ned, but it also sets up an important plot point, when the tombs become an important detail.

The meeting between Catherine, Rhenly and Stannis was something I was looking forward to as well. I fondly remember this scene from the book, with the two brothers fighting among each other like little children, while they should be working together against the Lannisters. Melisandre again creeps me out with her final words.

Another great addition that wasn't in the book, is Stannis and Davos talking onboard the ship. I am so glad they finally explained the thing about Davos and his bag of fingerbones. I noticed in earlier episodes that they hadn't forgotten this detail, but this is the first time they explain the deal with those things to the audience. This was also a scene that helps us understand the relationship between Stannis and Davos, and why Davos trusts him so much.

And of course the shadow baby scene! Originally in the book, we aren't shown this scene until much later when Stannis needs to take a castle, and can't think of any way to take it. Rather than having yet another expensive location for an unimportant plot point, they seem to have merged two plot points into one. The birthing scene will now directly link to what happens in episode 5. In the book, what is about to happen in episode 5 is never explained, and the readers are left to guess who was responsible. It isn't until this birthing scene that happens later on, that the readers can put two and two together. For convenience sake, they decided to first show the birthing scene, and then show the result in the next episode. Finally we see a little bit of actual magic in the show, I'm sure the audience is excited now. And it only gets better from her on in.

I couldn't remember initially if the scene with Tyrion's counsin Lancel was in the book, but upon looking it up, yes it was. I notice they really are turning Tyrion into the main noble character in the show, especially after that scene with Sansa (which was also in the book). He is easily one of the favourite characters in the whole show.

Now predictions regarding the next episode, based on what I already know from the book SPOILERS!:
REALLY BIG SPOILERS BELOW!

Spoiler

Rhenly is assassinated, Cat and Brienne flee. Tyrion discovers that Joffrey is a moron and has a terrible plan to defend the city. Tyrion then finds out about the hidden wildfire supplies and forms a plan to defend Kings Landing from the inevidable attack. The Nights Watch leaves Craster's Keep and finally reach the Fist of the First Men and set up camp there (we won't return to Craster until book 3). Arya receives a promise from Jaqen H'ghar, and perhaps marks the first man to die. Theon sails to the Stony Shore, and perhaps forms his plan to strike Winterfell to prove his worth (or they show him raiding a village). However, this is a bit of a problem since we haven't met Meera and Jojen Reed yet, and they haven't been cast either. So either they will not be in the show at all (which would be a pity), or they delay the sack of Winterfell until season 3 so they can introduce them then. However, this might mean they would have to delay Theon's story for the rest of the remaining season. I certainly see some problems with that. It is quite possible that Maester Luwin takes the role of Meera and Jojen Reed instead, but I hope not. I suspect we'll see the raid on Winterfell in episode 6. It is always a shame if characters from the book are dropped out for the show, or changed like with Asha. But we have to keep in mind that the show is an adaption of the books, so the show will certainly differ from the books. Much like a butterfly effect, these changes will become really big as the show progresses.

A preview of episode 5 - The Ghost of Harrenhal:



An inside look at the last episode, episode 4 - Garden of Bones:

[Gorani]

But we have to keep in mind that the show is an adaption of the books, so the show will certainly differ from the books. Much like a butterfly effect, these changes will become really big as the show progresses.

As more and more of those alterations take place and become obvious, I am really looking forward to how it will all fit together in the end. The Reeds are a nice set of characters, how is their role filled if they don't appear? Ross as the "sexy-time" character, which looks like she has Chataya's part. With the numerous new people around Danearys, we will see much more concentration of characters I the future. Finally Littlefinger, who had two scenes in his own brothels (which are not in the books) established him more "a pimp" than what he appears to be in the stories.
Looking forward to episode 4.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

I was kind of looking forward to the Reeds, because they come from an interesting line of frog-eating swamp people and all carry spears. It would be interesting to see the tv take on their costumes. We'll probably have to accept that we might not be seeing them at all in the series. It is not a huge loss, because with every adaption of an epic series of books, characters get thrown out. That was the case with LOTR and Harry Potter as well. I'm thankful for the characters that ARE in the series, such as Davos, Brienne and The Mountain. Especially Brienne would have been a terrible shame if they had left her out, or mis-cast her.

I think the ending of this last episode is probably what sells this season to the audience. It took a few episodes to pick up the pace, and there were a few things that turned some people off in the first 3 episodes (baby killing and all the pointless brothel scenes). But with that epic climax of this last episode, people will want to see how this all comes to a close.

I think the second season is often the hardest on any big new tv series. See, while the pilot and the first season have to get people introduced to tons of new characters and get the audience invested, it is the second season that has to convince the audience that the series hasn't run out of steam yet. I felt this was the case with Lost and Heroes, where shortly into season 2 I simply lost interest. It wasn't on par with the first season in the slightest. This last episode of Game of Thrones however scores a homerun in my opinion. It is dark, twisted and creepy.

BTW, I liked the opening scene of this last episode with the guards. It added a bit of welcome humour and tension, while also reminding us that Robb Stark is still at war. Some people have complained that they keep skipping battles and only showing the aftermath. But in the books we rarely experience battles first hand as well. In the books, most of the battle are viewed through the eyes of people that stay behind. In my opinion, the story of the characters that experience the effects of these wars is a lot more interesting than a bunch of CGI armies clashing with each other. We've seen enough CGI battles in Return of the King to last a life time. I prefer to watch a story instead, and Game of Thrones is doing us a great service by not focussing on battles.

[Buddah]

I think Poliver and The Tickler got rolled into one. Makes some sense since it shorten Arya's little prayer and cut out a few killings later.


Waiting on the Blood Mummers to be seriously introduced.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

They made an interesting choice during the episode to switch Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister around. And I think I understand why, but just to clarify for those who haven't read the books (or for those whose memory is a little fuzzy).

In the books, Arya is taken in as Roose Bolton's cupbearer, who is also known as the leech lord, because he lets people drain his blood with leeches thinking that it improves his health. Roose Bolton is allied to Robb Stark, and in the show we see him at the battlefield with Robb, instead of being at Harrenhal. Roose Bolton is an untrustworthy guy, who eventually comes to believe the cause of the Starks is lost, and plots against Robb with Tywin.

Now in the show Arya becomes Tywin's cupbearer instead. I think they did this because first of all, the actor playing Tywin has a terrific screen presence, and they want him leading the attack to the north. We'll probably get to see the war preparations through Arya's eyes, who as a cubbearer is able to get very close to Tywin. Also, having a relatively unknown character enter Harrenhal isn't quite as a big deal as having Tywin Lannister make an entrance. Because the audience understands through Tyrion's words just what a dangerous and fearsome commander Tywin is. There's an odd mix of terror and relief when Tywin enters, because this also saves Gendry's life just in the nick of time.

But second, this allows the show to play out how Roose Bolton and Robb are slowly breaking apart. We already saw this at the start of the last episode, where Roose Bolton does not agree with the mercy that Robb is showing towards some of the wounded. This slowly drives a bit of a wedge between them. The show tends to make a lot of these changes in favor of actually having characters interact with each other, rather than having their thoughts play out in their heads. Good call on their part. But I hope it doesn't cause continuety problems.

One last thing that should probably be clarified is the mention of this mysterious Brotherhood, because it hasn't been properly adressed yet in the show. During the torture scenes in Harrenhal, they ask the prisoners about the Brotherhood. This is actually refering to Beric Dondarion and his Brotherhood Without Banners. Beric is a guy who we've seen only briefly on the show and he wasn't properly introduced. He leads a rogue band that uses dirty guerilla tactics to pick apart the Lannister forces one by one. Beric is also often called The Lightning Lord (because of the purple lightning bolt on his armor). Since they did reveal him in the show, I can only assume that we'll get to see more of him. Since he plays an important part in the storyline of Arya and The Hound as well.

[Qanar]

Rob: I love your views on the series. You obviously know alot about the books (or are reading the simultainiously to the series). But you also always give me insights that I didn't figure out (or on a much less deep level) for myself. Keep doing this!