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  1. #1331
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    That's a better boss-fight, since it forces you to stay on your toes. Even in games for children you see that mechanic. In the new Tintin game e.g. (I'm afraid I bought it ), you have to fight Rackham, who forces you to jump or duck every now and then. It makes the fight way more dynamic.

  2. #1332
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    I won't worry about those big and slow 1 trillion hp bosses much. Honestly we can't expect too much from them. They will take forever to kill and will require a community effort. You will not be "The Hero" that takes it down. They will be exactly what we expected.

    I am more interested in those smaller, faster moving bosses with special abilities tbh. If there is a small world event boss, you can bet that he/she would be epic.
    Last edited by CHIPS; 03-02-2012 at 06:28.

  3. #1333
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Look, if that dragon behaved intelligently, we'd be toast no matter what. It's a fantasy game. Get used to it. I don't expect these bosses to move around, but then again, they don't have to for the fight to be epic.

    I've looked at a lot of videos for WoW bosses, and frankly, I don't see anything there that GW2 bosses don't also have. I haven't played against those high-level bosses though (I got bored before ever getting close, I did a bunch of mid-level instances though) but I did also sit with a friend who did a few endgame instances and explained to me all the mechanics while he was playing. I've seen more than a few hints that GW2 bosses will also have similar mechanics.

    Combo that with no tanking and with a bunch of other activities (like defending or manning cannons)... the only real thing lacking is a system where you can climb on the boss's back (Shadow of the Colossus-style) and stab him in the eyeball.
    No, we wouldn't all be toast. But maybe half of us. And that would be ok. The problem with him standing around like a retard is that it makes you feel not as if you had to struggle to win (which in turn makes it feel as if it actually matters what you do, which is part of what makes something feel epic), instead it makes you feel as if you win by default. And that is horrible. While it is "what people want" today, it also makes sure that it doesn't feel exciting. There is more to epicness than graphics.
    This is also, BTW, why the final NF boss battle kinda sucks. Yes you can lose, but if you just follow the pattern, you'll win by default. The only struggle (and there is barely that) is in doing it fast enough to beat the time limit for master's reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyy High View Post
    .....and?
    And he did all the things Alaris listed and none of them matters.
    Imagine you're playing a modern-setting FPS. You're in a room and a tank drives straight through the wall and aims its gun at you. Then it does nothing whatsoever for two minutes, after which it fires its gun once every 50 seconds without re-aiming or anything remotely similar. You'd be like, what the **** am I playing.

  4. #1334
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    The problem with Abbadon isnt that he is stationary though, but that there is a pattern. Once you know the pattern he is pretty much a pushover. The same would be true if he ran around like crazy as well; if he does so in a predictable pattern where you don't have to think at all once you got it down it would still be a challenge-less fight. It has nothing to do with the movement of the boss and everything to do with the mechanics of the fight as a whole. The movement is cosmetic only.
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  5. #1335
    Quote Originally Posted by Lensor View Post
    The problem with Abbadon isnt that he is stationary though, but that there is a pattern. Once you know the pattern he is pretty much a pushover. The same would be true if he ran around like crazy as well; if he does so in a predictable pattern where you don't have to think at all once you got it down it would still be a challenge-less fight. It has nothing to do with the movement of the boss and everything to do with the mechanics of the fight as a whole. The movement is cosmetic only.
    Yes. Any time when the boss is confined to a pattern you can just stand outside the pattern and shoot into it. The thing is that the boss runs on a pattern, so you can find a pattern yourself, and then just apply it to beat him.
    However, the easiest way for the boss to break the pattern of the players (because the boss is supposed to seem to try to beat the players, remember?) is, in most cases, to move. One reason Glint was considered the ultimate boss battle back in the Prophecies days (hahaha, better than the lich at least) was that Glint used several tactics that, despite them being on a pattern themselves, seem intended to break players' patterns.
    In short, with Glint, you had a pissed off dragon that got in your face, and she had several methods of screwing you over if you tried to defend yourself.
    With the Shatterer, you have a pissed off dragon that stands there taking hits. Now, sure, there might be more to it than meets the eye. Still, I expect it to have the same general feeling of oversimplicity that I get from GW2 instead of the careful synergizing (and antisynergizing) and pattern breaking that I got from GW1.

  6. #1336
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    Isn't using the Shatter event a bit misleading? Isn't it a entry level encounter designed to be part of the tutorial?

    I may be misunderstanding it, but I would expect an encounter like that to be quite simplistic. The purpose of such an event would be to give players a first taste of Boss battles. I would not expect a lot of complexity, since it could prove to be a turn off for new players. You don't want to smack them with a complex, game skill requiring battle right off the bat. That entry level encounter should illustrate the basics only. Complexity can and should be added with subsequent battles. I just don't think we've seen enough of these follow on battles to make a good judgement on whether or not we will get complex and varied boss battles.

  7. #1337
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    The Shatterer isn't an entry level encounter, it's an high-level one, so the comparison is valid.

  8. #1338
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    Apologies, my error.

    Do we know at what point (first quarter, half way, end game) that this encounter occurs?

  9. #1339
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    I thought around level 45, so half way.

  10. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    The problem with him standing around like a retard (...) it makes you feel as if you win by default.
    Your opinion of "boss standing there = no challenge" is noted, and frankly, rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    And he did all the things Alaris listed and none of them matters.
    Some of the most epic fights I had in games were against bosses that don't move. If they can hit you from a distance, they really don't need to move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lensor View Post
    The problem with Abbadon (...) Once you know the pattern he is pretty much a pushover.
    This. Epic is in the difficulty being high yet not frustrating. That can be done with or without boss movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    you can just stand outside the pattern and shoot into it.
    Not if his attack range exceeds yours, and the so-called pattern includes random elements. If for example, his breath attack has much higher range than your arrows (or cannons) and it hits at random locations, you are obliged to pay attention to when he does that attack and to actively avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    However, the easiest way for the boss to break the pattern of the players (because the boss is supposed to seem to try to beat the players, remember?) is, in most cases, to move.
    Wrong. It is to be unpredictable.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    One reason Glint was considered the ultimate boss battle back in the Prophecies days (...) was that Glint used several tactics
    Funny you didn't mention that he moved. Yes, the reason he was the ultimate boss was because he had a lot of skills that really messed you up. Moving was not a particularly important aspect of why that fight was epic when you think about it.

    The shatterer for example can encase people in ice. If you don't respond by freeing them, you're probably toast. Bosses have abilities like this which, if implemented well, can make the fight quite epic. With the right difficulty level, it'll be epic.
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