Okay, for sh**s and gi****s, I decided to PUG today's mission, Warband O bros. (warband o bros before warband O ho's! YO's!)
So I decide to pick up an assassa for the heck of it. But then when I decided we needed an ele, and it was a two group, they had an assassin who I had turned down a moment eariler. Two assassins in same group is not good. But I felt it'd be in bad form to just pick one, and kick the other. So I left them in.
Early part of the mission went okay, but second part they ended up taking dirt nap after dirt nap, and then ran in and agroed a full double group which could have been single pulled more easilly.
I'll give it this that I should have kicked one and gotten a second monk. Had a bad feeling about the monk we had, and I was right. (any time your monk lets a MM die from just BoTM is NOT a good monk)
I'll admit my leadership skills aren't as savy as they should be, but could someone explain WHY I should even bother taking ANY assassins along in any mission at all anymore? Or even why I should keep any assassin charas beyond using as an aged mule now?
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Thread: Why bother with assassins?
03-12-2010, 09:24 #1
Why bother with assassins?
03-12-2010, 09:59 #2
Sorry, that has nothing to do with the assassin class, but rather with people who don't understand agro management.Lady Rhonwyn (sister of Danea, Katlinel, Gwendydd, and the rest)
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03-12-2010, 13:08 #3
Okay, I'll give it that. I'd be in just as bad a shape if I had taken a warrior with the same mentality, which is why I have a general disdain for most melee classes, but an actual warrior would supposedly have better armor and better understanding of agro then most assassins.
All to often, PUG assassins have the tanker mentality. They run or port in, and expect someone to keep them alive. I've rarely, if ever seen one wait in the back lines for the rushers to come up and work on taking them out. Or wait until the casters have used up a bunch of their spells and then start working on them.
I guess what I'm really asking, is if I attempt at doing PUGs, which is a bad thing to begin with, but some of us like challanges, what should I be looking for, and asking for in said fighters?
And since they will need some sort of support, what should I be looking for IN support for melees?
03-12-2010, 14:15 #4
What should I be looking for, and asking for in said fighters?
for general builds that doesnt need tailoring for a specific purpose (i.e. The Deep etc.) the best builds are usually scythe wielders or death blossomers, their main benefit being that their damage output is high and not reliant on that many skills leaving room for things like critical agility (Armor) and critial Defences (Block) which makes assassins usefull as frontliners. Teleports is usually a no go in PvE except for tailored builds.
03-12-2010, 14:32 #5
I think sins are best suited as the center of the team. That is, a smite and/or channeling rit and/or orders necro buffing them and the sin being the main source of damage. Buffed like that, they can spam DB and basically be a one man killing machine even in HM, and the two henchie monks can easily spend all their effort on the sin.
When sins are in PUGs they a) lose the physical buffs that are even more powerful than normal on a sin (SoH) b) don't have time to finish an attack combo and c) need to devout more of their bar and especially play style to defense unless there is a competent prot monk in the group (only incompetent HB/UA monks are available.) I find point 'b' to be the most damning. People who don't wind up for the knock out punch are just more effective in a fast paced PUG full of PvE skills.
Long story short, I agree: Be wary of sins in BYOB PUGs.
03-12-2010, 14:43 #6
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I think sins and dervs and warriors are roughly equal in ability. Ok, maybe not perfectly balanced, but still pretty close. Close enough that you wouldn't notice a difference in efficiency if someone skilled played a sin or a warrior or a derv.
A sin can act as melee with some defensive buffs, or as damage spiker from the midline. I actually think the second role is what sins were designed to excel at originally, but somehow people usually play them as melee. Nothing wrong with that though...
Over-aggro + bad monking = melee taking dirt naps. Because melee players take the heat for the team. I've had my share of capable sins in PUGs. But I don't leave without 2 healers.
03-12-2010, 15:24 #7
03-12-2010, 15:48 #8
What to look for? Health that is greater than 480 is a good start. Failing that, make sure a hero brings Prot Spirit and just micro it onto them the whole mission.
A smiter monk (with some prots) to buff up the 'sin makes them do silly damage. Orders are pretty okay too. Whatever you do, brings prots for the frontline.
Ping targets for them (don't expect frontline to know which targets to take down first...pugs are like that).
I took frenzy on my first assassin and made my way across Cantha with ease (yes, even with the soul explosions). There's no real cure for people who are just bad and refuse to learn how to manage their class appropriately.
Except Prot Spirit.Dea Draconis • Friendship is Magic • Dea Felidae
03-12-2010, 16:06 #9
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lol @ prot spirit
PUGs need a bit of organization from the leader. Ping targets. Make sure you have enough competent healers. Make sure the team is not too lobsided. Then you should be fine.
Prot spirit is of course always a good idea.
03-12-2010, 16:32 #10
From what I get from the OP, the problem wasn't with the assassins, but with the monk. No, wait, it was having a single monk to begin with.
Old school setups with one heal monk and one prot still make for extremely durable teams even if your frontline consist of maniacs who aggro everything in sight.