One healer is sufficient in most cases if the team is playing skillfully. Which is why I always bring 2 in a PUG.
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Thread: Why bother with assassins?
03-12-2010, 16:48 #11
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03-12-2010, 17:34 #12
The Assassin is extraordinarily powerful.
A sad fact is that there are zero options for dagger builds. You run daggers, you take Jagged Strike, Fox Fangs, and Death Blossom. You can bring Golden Fang to make up for Fox Fangs's abysmal recharge time. And maybe Sneak Attack or an interrupt if you want to have utility. But everything else is utterly unusable, in comparison.
Why are those three skills so powerful?
* You're attacking 2 or more times a second on average. Any +damage buffs on you are that much more powerful.
* This high rate of attack means you effectively have double adrenaline - for no cost, you're like a 100% uptime For Great Justice warrior. An assassin can maintain Save Yourselves at all times.
* The low recharge time means you can switch targets AT WILL. Remember those old Black Spider > Dual > etc chains that would whiff when some jerk kills the target you're trying to melt, and then standing around feeling very useless? No longer an issue, when your chain takes 2 seconds and recharges almost instantly.
* Extreme freedom of skill slots. Assassins used to have to load at least four or five attack skills to pressure. Now you have five slots, including your elite, to load up anything.
* That said, I've had difficultly in finding an appropriate elite in these specs. I've taken to Way of the Assassin, for IAS and energy management (Critical Agility is unreliable considering every single monster in the game has removal)... but what I would really like is an elite version of Conjure ______ or Strength of Honor. This is one of the few builds it's hard to justify an elite in, Ebon Dust Aura + Conviction would be good if you had the attribute points to spare.
* Mobius > Death Blossom alternating is only a couple more dps than this, at its best. It takes ~one second for Jagged > Fox, and Mobius at best is one second.
The entire system is kind of bizarre. But it's a powerful unit, whether it's using a scythe of daggers.
Also: hero assassin's aren't too terrible, though I really wish they'd start spamming more quickly. Don't give them a lot of buttons to push and chances to fail, and they can maintain around 60 dps with just these three skills. The only other hero build I know that can do that are engines that involve pets and relying on the AI's epic autoattack skills.
Last edited by Undaunted; 03-12-2010 at 17:52.
03-12-2010, 17:36 #13
Stop playing with pug's noa.
It's bad for your health and will only serve to lengthen the period of time you need to play in order to reach your many goals.
03-12-2010, 18:47 #14
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PUGs are very valuable:
1) They increase the chance of success of players who are even more terrible than those in the PUG
2) They teach a leader to lead or fail
3) They provide much comic relief
4) They provide a place where good players can teach bad ones, or at least make fun of them
03-12-2010, 19:22 #15
Agreed. I rarely play Zmissions now but when i do I alway pug cause is so much fun.
04-01-2011, 19:27 #16
Bottom line: An Assassin with anything but a well versed player at the helm (or at least one that KNOWS what an Assassin can and can NOT do) is a party disaster waiting to happen. Getting 2 of them in a PUG is setting sail on a burning ship with a number of gapping holes in it.
Ive played with Assassins that thought they were Warriors and it always ends up with them being defensive and tossing out all kinds of excuses as to why they died a dozen times. That does not mean that with the proper skills and enemy combination (area dependent) an Assassin can't tank...but it's very situational and takes knowlege, caution and skill to pull off properly.
Despite the Assassin's horrid reputation, good Assassin players can provide good spike damage support to a party (but the real issue is that most PUGs don't NEED that kind of support to complete the goal at hand, so why take the chance). I mostly play my Sin alone due to this, but I do find it rewarding to get into a PUG and change some people's atttitudes about Assassin's in general as I usually get a compliment or 2 before it's over. Granted the comments are usually about me not dying once or the monk thanking me for not making them keep me alive continually, but the point is, some player out there somewhere now KNOWS that a properly played Assassin CAN contribute and not be burden to the limited team healing resources.
04-01-2011, 20:50 #17
This reminds me of a few old Mez threads…There’s nothing wrong with the sin its how they are played. As you stated you would be in the same situation with a warrior that ran in and agro’ed everything, or an Elly who runs up and casts a heavy damage long recharge skill before agro is drawn.
A good assassin waits while agro is drawn, and identifies the target he wants to hit. Then after the ‘fight’ is going and agro is established he runs in and takes out that target. I generally only would call a target if I was having trouble dropping it and it was a priority target. Best suited to not attack the same target as the rest of the party otherwise he won’t get attack chains off and does nothing more than auto attack while his attack one and two recharge. I love playing my Assassin but I rarely PUG these days and thus she gets little use. H/H’ing with my Assassin means I need to lead the pack and call targets for my H/H, thus attack chains don’t work well as I never get one off.
Keeping one alive: I found all I need to keep me alive is one skill, Vig Spirit, I had a monk casting that on me I never saw my life drop under 90% and he only paid attention to me to re-cast it.
What to look for: Ask him what his roll is, if he wants to tank, draw agro, lead the party, drop him.
06-01-2011, 04:55 #18
I agree. Bringing assassins that accidentally aggro two groups at once while your only monk lets your MM die from BotM is bad, and you shouldn't bother to do that again.
I like PUG assassins that hang out in the mid/backfield and flatten things that attack the squishies. "Look out something is coming for the monk... oh wait it just got murdered by the assassin, gg"
06-01-2011, 04:58 #19
Those 2 sins sounds horrible, but that isn't the only reason for your defeat. You only bought one monk for a party of 7. 2 monks is almost required for anything HM unless there is a BiP necro to boost energy.
However most good sins have moved on to other classes. For example I was a good sin. I survive with my sin just fine by hit and run. But I hasn't play him for over a year. Sin's DPS isn't that high compared to a ritualist. And sins are very fragile and quite a liability to the monks. And all they can do is damage and cannot support the team in any other way. Even elementalists can blind enemies. And honestly why bother with the hit and run assassin when dervishes and warriors can tank and fight at the same time?
Last edited by CHIPS; 06-01-2011 at 05:06.
06-01-2011, 11:42 #20
Ritualists do quite nice damage. But nothing in this game comes close to a buffed-up physical.
GW is a team game.
And if you do it right, you will end up with a group that is MUCH more than just the sum of it's parts.
As for the squishiness, you win this game by killing ****.
Your monks (or ER Prots or STs) aren't killing. Which means that dropping PS and SoA on a guy that will kill half the map with it JUSTIFIES their presence in a party. And if they can't do that - then they have no place there.