Thief going to be extremely difficult to deal with in PvP?

[Alaris]

Remember that a thief is useless beyond a distance. Sure they can't catch him... but he can't do anything either from that far away.

Unlike say ranger who has some of the best ranged weaponry.

[raspberry jam]

I don't remember people complaining about jetpacks being overpowered in Tribes.

I DON'T REMEMBER PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT I PUT A LASER CANNON ON MY QUEEN LAST TIME I PLAYED CHESS

Seriously, bro? Tribes was a completely different game.

[Vana]

LASER CANNONS!!!



-nocaps-

[Akirai Annuvil]

Oh boy, so they can now shadow step once every 3 seconds and do nothing else. Good for them.

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. Whether teleporting every 3 seconds or not will be a problem will remain to be seen. As I already said. Now stop being dumb, and just admit you don't have a clue how balance will work out, how to balance shadow steps in this game or even how frequent shadow steps will be.

Remember that a thief is useless beyond a distance.

Yeah, thank god they don't have bows or pistols available (or ranged dagger skills).

As I said it was just guessing because we don't know how this will work in detail.

I know, I was just pointing out they do have a few innate abilities to deal with the thiefs strength, depending on how the numbers are balanced, they should be able to deal with thieves.
That said, I´m expecting Guards to have the most problem dealing with thiefs. They're movement restrictions are supposed to be long cooldown (far longer than what we've seen of thieves' teleports), they don't seem to have (m)any snares and thief damage is often of the many-small-packages variety, so aegis's timed blocks probably won't serve to hinder incoming damage that well.

[shawn]

Everyone is going to have good movement capabilities in this game. I don't remember people complaining about jetpacks being overpowered in Tribes.

I remember people complaining when they dumbed down skiing. All you had to do was press a key!

What does that have to do with the thief? Nothing. I just miss Tribes.

[Alaris]

Yeah, thank god they don't have bows or pistols available (or ranged dagger skills).

I understand your concern, but I don't think it's warranted.

I think that a stationary thief will die against anyone with a brain. Everyone has ranged damage, and everyone we know of so far either has better damage than thief, better armor than thief, or both. I don't see a thief winning a fight against any other profession if he stands still. His only chance of winning is to avoid more damage than his foe.

Yes, they can outmanoeuvre their foe, but they pretty much have to in order to stand a chance.

Foes can counter that advantage by (1) using snares or bubbles, (2) manoeuvring enough to reduce their advantage, and/or (3) just out-dps'ing them when they can.

[raspberry jam]

I think that a stationary thief will die against anyone with a brain. Everyone has ranged damage, and everyone we know of so far either has better damage than thief, better armor than thief, or both. I don't see a thief winning a fight against any other profession if he stands still. His only chance of winning is to avoid more damage than his foe.

Yes, they can outmanoeuvre their foe, but they pretty much have to in order to stand a chance.

Foes can counter that advantage by (1) using snares or bubbles, (2) manoeuvring enough to reduce their advantage, and/or (3) just out-dps'ing them when they can.

Replace "thief" with "GW1 assassin"... Now I don't wanna be all like "GW1 Prophecies didn't have a rogue class and that made it all better", but to be quite honest, GW1 Prophecies didn't have a rogue class and that made it all better.

[Alaris]

Assassin was doomed in ways thief isn't necessarily. Hence the big changes.

1) thief name suggest not good at combat, so avoid if possible... means people know what to expect more
2) attack energy =/= other energy, so you can spam attacks in bursts *and* move in/out (sin used same energy to move or attack, so you had to choose)
3) sin attack combo means staying in place until the combo is done, no such thing with thieves
4) no dual profession to mess things up

Seems like the devs looked at the assassin, said "ok, that was fail... what did we do wrong?" and then fixed it. Will it be fixed? I don't know, but it looks promising.

[raspberry jam]

2) attack energy =/= other energy, so you can spam attacks in bursts *and* move in/out (sin used same energy to move or attack, so you had to choose)
3) sin attack combo means staying in place until the combo is done, no such thing with thieves

So basically the problem with assassins was that they would jump in, kill, jump out. And now you're saying that thief does this more efficiently and that that would solve anything?

"Guys we can't put this in the food we sell. It's toxic"
"Maybe if we put in even more? At least we won't get any complaints!"

[Alaris]

So basically the problem with assassins was that they would jump in, kill, jump out. And now you're saying that thief does this more efficiently and that that would solve anything?

Come back to me when you at least understood my argument. I don't care if you agree or not... but you can't tell me I'm wrong if you have no clue what I'm saying.

The thief has movement, combat, and survival ability a lot more independent of each other... so these can be balanced separately.

For example, by removing the combo mechanic, thieves no longer need to be able to tank (even if just for a few seconds). Thus their survival ability can be significantly reduced.

Likewise, the lack of shared energy pool for damage and utility means that to a larger degree than possible before, movement and damage can be balanced separately.

-----

Basically, I'm saying that the problem with assassins was that they could jump in and jump out, but they didn't have to. Now I'm saying that thief not only is encouraged to do this, but he pretty much has to if he wants to live.

For dummies version:
High survivability + teleport + sustainable high dps = bad (sin)
Low survivability + teleport + burst damage (not sustainable) = could work (thief)