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  1. #141
    Here is the reason I really want to play a WvWvW only Thief (Human or Sylvari).

    So much stealth = survivability/annoyance to enemies

    With that skill set, you have Backstab to leap to enemy and Infiltrator's Arrow to shadowstep to your arrow shot location. You have Disabling Shot and Roll for Initiative as retreating skills. Between both weapon sets you have bleeding, vulnerability, crippling, poison, and blinding conditions. You have Cloak and Dagger to go into stealth (not sure of cooldown), Shadow Refuge to go into immobilized stealth/heal, Hide in Shadows to go into mobile stealth (attacking reveals), and Invisible Stalker to go into stealth for 8 seconds and be invisible while attacking. Haste is for increased movement and could be swapped for a more defensive skill like Caltrops for bleed/cripple. Or it could be swapped for ShadowStep, but since we have 2 skills to get to the target already, don't really need it.

    Kinda ridiculous. Basically I could start my attack with Backstab to leap to foe, then cripple and then bleed. If they run, you could turn around (opposite the direction they're running) and do Roll for Initiative to gain init and to catch up. You could also use haste. If they stay to fight and you get low on health, you can use Cloak and Dagger to stealth, then pop out again to hit with shortbow from distance, then use Shadow Refuge to heal, then pop out and attack again, then use Hide in Shadows to stealth again, then attack, then use Shadow Refuge, then attack again, then use Invisible Stalker, then attack again, then use Hide in Shadows again, then...

    Sounds fun to me. And that's not even all of the stealth skills. You have the Shadow Trap one as well, which could be interesting with Caltrops and Tripwire. You also have Blinding Powder which makes all allies in the aoe of it vanish in stealth + blinds enemies.

    I've also been looking into the skills available for each profession so far. I think the Necro seems too limited for what I want to do. The only viable Necro weapon set/skillset that would be fun to me would be dagger/dagger with minions. Another thing I noticed, the only weapon sets for the Guardian that I like are Staff and Mace/Shield. I do like the skill types the Guardian has. The one thing I don't like about the Elementalist is the lack of a second weapon set. I understand that they have 4 attunements, but all four attunements have the same types of skills. For instance, dagger/dagger is more of a close range weapon set, but if I want to do long range, I can't switch to staff. There are a few longer range dagger/dagger attacks, but not as many as staff. If I wanted to play ranged, I would use staff, but I can't escape or handle close combat as well as if I used dagger/dagger. I do like the Elementalist skills though.

    My previous list:
    1. Sylvari Necro + Sylvari Thief for WvWvW (Simultaneous)
    2. Sylvari Guardian
    3. Human Elementalist
    4. Norn Ranger
    My new list:

    1. Human Thief (WvWvW)
    2. Sylvari Guardian
    3. Sylvari Elementalist
    4. Norn Ranger
    5. Asura Necro

    Ergo, vis a vis, concordantly, I think that the Thief will be the most fun experience in terms of weapon skills capabilities, stealth, mobility, and survivability (I think that's a word). I think that the Guardian will be the most fun support type, being able to create several different physical barriers + heal/protect allies. I think the Elementalist will be the second most fun support type, with flamewalls + heals + good survivability (elemental shields, etc.).

    I'm still holding out for the Ranger, though. Depending on the changes they make, that could screw everything up.

    Yes, I do change my mind once a week.
    Last edited by Xilisys; 29-09-2011 at 14:24.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilisys View Post
    I understand that they have 4 attunements, but all four attunements have the same types of skills.
    I'm not clear on what you mean by "type" here. Essentially all weapon sets for all professions have the same types of skills: a balanced mix of offense and defense. Every set offers damage, support, and control. This mix can be skewed a bit in one direction or the other, like the different attunements, but no set is pure offense or pure support. I don't see why you regard the attunements as being somehow different. Different attunements offer various effects and conditions -- blinding, burning, knockdown, knockback, vulnerability, bleeding, etc. -- just like other professions using other weapons. In what way are the skills more of a type for the ele than they are for any other profession?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    I'm not clear on what you mean by "type" here.
    What I mean by type is that each weapon has an optimal range to be at for skills. Dagger/dagger has several "nearby" skills, which require to be within almost touching distance. It also has skills for closing into melee range. Staff however has skills to keep the enemy at distance, as well as a lot more area targeted skills.

    It's not that each one doesn't offer offense/defense/support as well as the other, it's the range of skills. For instance, my Thief's weapon sets will be dagger/dagger and shortbow - dagger/dagger is melee range, shortbow is longer range.

    With the Elementalist, you can't switch from staff to dagger/dagger in mid-combat because you only have one weapon slot. You're stuck with one or the other. I guess I just like the ability to switch from being able to handle enemies up close, to being able to attack better from range.

    Each attunement is generally better in one area. Fire is AoE damage, Water is support/snare, Air is single target DPS, Earth is defense/knockdown. I'm not saying that all the skills in each attunement are the same. I'm just saying that if you use a weapon set, all the skills in each attunement are generally setup for the same distance/range for skills and you can't switch to a different set. Sorry for any confusion.
    Last edited by Xilisys; 29-09-2011 at 16:34.

  4. #144
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    I can see different elements differing in *how* they provide the defense / damage. For example, water is better for healing (good if someone on your team needs help), whereas earth is better at blind / kd (better if someone on the opposing team does too much damage).

    Also, while both heal and blind are defensive, the latter is proactive.
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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilisys View Post
    What I mean by type is that each weapon has an optimal range to be at for skills.
    Okay, I follow your argument now, and I find this problem disturbing as well. Attunement swaps are unlike weapon swaps in that they don't provide a range-changing ability. No other profession is "stuck" at a particular range through the course of an engagement unless they choose their weaponsets in a way that forces this situation. Eles don't get a choice.

    However, it may turn out that eles need less choice. It may be possible to optimize the build via utility skills for the range of the weapon chosen. It wouldn't surprise me much if other professions often do the same thing. Will all warriors, for example, choose a melee set and a ranged set? Or might some be happier with two melee sets: a one-handed weapon and shield set for more defensive play and a two-handed or dual-wield set for more aggressive play?

  6. #146
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    Well, do keep in mind that elementalists are usually more of a ranged profession, with the difference between weapons being more in *how much range*, with a side of *being able to step into melee do damage and step out*.

    As far as I can tell, elementalists are the only profession that was not meant to stay in melee range. Well, except for engineers.

    And yes, I can see many opting for two melee sets or two ranged sets rather than one of each.
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    However, it may turn out that eles need less choice. It may be possible to optimize the build via utility skills for the range of the weapon chosen.
    The Weapon Mastery traits increase the damage of weapons by 10% each and traits like Stormchild & Haste seem to give you better benefits if you are up close to enemies (e.g. revovering from stun faster, which is more often dealt by melee skills and moving faster which gets you close to kiting enemies)

    Too few traits are know up till now, so the optimization options you talk about might come or not.
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  8. #148
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    Keep in mind that outside combat you can swap weapon. So you easily could, for example, swap weapon before getting in range of the dungeon boss, or move out of combat to swap weapon. You just can't do it while in-combat.

    Not sure if you can do that in PvP too.
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    As far as I can tell, elementalists are the only profession that was not meant to stay in melee range. Well, except for engineers.
    Rangers. Some of their attacks with "melee" weapons are ranged (thrown axe, dagger, torch), and others are strike-and-run attacks (e.g., Hornet Sting) or strike-and-knockback (e.g., Slash-Kick-Pounce). Rangers don't really seem to be meant for sustained toe-to-toe melee either.

  10. #150
    After seeing the asura biography questions/settings, I now have two possible sets of characters planned if I get the game:

    Asura Mesmer (or other scholar, if that somehow happens)
    Sylvari Necro
    Human Elementalist
    Norn Engineer
    Human Thief
    Sylvari Ranger
    Norn Guardian
    Charr Warrior

    Or

    Asura Mesmer
    Sylvari Necro
    Human Elementalist
    Human Engineer
    Asura Thief
    Sylvari Ranger
    Norn Guardian
    Charr Warrior


    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    Rangers. Some of their attacks with "melee" weapons are ranged (thrown axe, dagger, torch), and others are strike-and-run attacks (e.g., Hornet Sting) or strike-and-knockback (e.g., Slash-Kick-Pounce). Rangers don't really seem to be meant for sustained toe-to-toe melee either.
    Somewhat of a nitpick, but ranger axes were actually described by Anet as full ranged weapons, with torches not being described either way (Which I'm sure you've seen, being a long time forum user), though your post still makes sense. Necromancers may fit in this category as well, since their skills seem more "close range" than "melee", though this may well be a really fine distinction.


    To me, it seems the differences in effects between elementalist skills in different attunements seems greater than the difference between different ranges, though switching things other than range certainly changes the playstyle compared to other professions.

    As for my guess on taking all-melee vs all ranged vs mixed on characters that can do so: My guess would be that the more group activities someone does (dungeons in particular are what I'm thinking of, though following groups around events seems to fit as well), the more likely someone would be to bring two weapons with the same range, since when in a group the players can specialize a bit more, and won't have concerns with pulling or keeping enemies away, and can more effectively take advantage of the flexibility of different types of skills at the same range.

    Obviously, though, I haven't played the game, so cant be too sure about this sort of prediction.

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