I've heard the fears... regular MMO players won't understand why Guild Wars 2 changed the conventions, and why it's better (or at least good). So... here's a thread so we can practice explaining it. I mean, it's one thing to understand it, especially from the point of view of a GW player, but it's another entirely to explain it to someone who plays standard MMOs or even doesn't play games.
I also want to see some people posting the devil's advocate here. Go ahead, but remember, have fun with it.
Here's my take...
I remember asking what was so fun about endgame instances in WoW, seeing as I would probably not get to play them myself. The standard reply was that they are challenging, and moreover, that the challenge was everything you have to pay attention. You have to do your rotation (jargon for 123 key punching), but you also had to get out of the fire on the ground or react to what the boss does.
Get out of the fire on the ground...
You might say then that the whole combat system in GW2 is based around the best part of the combat system in WoW. I mean, if you want ground-based effects, Guild Wars will have DoT's, but also health regeneration, weapon buffs, protective bubbles, temporary impassable walls. So, it's what you liked in WoW, but a lot more of it! And it's everywhere... expect that in persistant areas, in PvP, in dungeons, in missions, because it's central to the combat system.
React to what the boss does...
Reacting to what the foes do is part of standard foe AI. Remember the centaurs that lift their shield, then charge? That means get out of the way... but this is not an end boss, it's a regular foe. The same with tree monsters that knock you away with a powerful but slow strike. Also, there's a lot more littered bosses everywhere. Remember the big dragon you keep seeing in fan videos? Well, you meet him in the middle of the game, in a persistent area. That's right... you're walking along minding your own business and OMG big chicken falls from the sky! I bet he's got a few special moves that you need to know how to counter.
In short, ANet is taking the stuff people love most in MMOs, and putting them everywhere, not just in endgame bosses.
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Thread: Explain Guild Wars 2 to me...
17-05-2011, 16:53 #1
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Explain Guild Wars 2 to me...
17-05-2011, 17:41 #2
For me it seems like thy are trying to bring the beauty of single player games to the mmo world, the random encounters sounds wonderful to me, i hate the fact that after a while a player know the exact location of every enemy spawn.
Difficult fights are a real bonus in my opinion, the need to think and adapt to the giving situation (i hope that thy will not use the wep change cooldown in the release).
From what i read combat wise the game will be a bit disappointing, the fact that player will have to click to select and not aim and auto select (age of conan, dungeons and dragons online), will make the combat clumsy in my opinion.
17-05-2011, 17:55 #3
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To each their favorite control scheme... I like not having to click on stuff in GW1 personally. I'm happy though it's not a FPS because those tend to make me sick (even though I enjoy them) so I can only play them a bit at a time. I'll have to see how it works out in GW2 though...
I agree, Rhinala, that needing to adapt and think is key to having fun gameplay... I would add that this is not achieved by difficulty per se. Weapon cooldowns make sense to me because it makes it a bit harder to swap back & forth, which would be annoying if you were required to do so regularly to be a pro player. Providing a short cooldown means that you have to decide if swapping is really needed. My opinion anyway... I also like not having to micro too much.
I agree also with the dynamic event system, but I think this part is easy to understand and explain. Events are like quests but instead of having it explained, you see it happen. And you can join in with other players even if not in a group. Dynamic events are the same, except that they don`t loop, rather, they cycle with other events in a complex way that depends on your performance.
The best part of dynamic is that although you can`t know in advance what will be where, it`s also not random. It follows a logical progression.
19-05-2011, 02:21 #4
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Eh, I'll bring up Martin's new interview here. GW2 does have the dynamic event system (for what they have shown), which is to alleviate the drudgery the MMO has been kind of known for over the years. I have a question concerning the dynamic event system (I am sure it has been asked before, but I am bringing it up again). In the interview, Martin says:
Then as long as you keep them confined, your village is safe.
19-05-2011, 02:33 #5
I think what you're trying to say about WoW's endgame stuff in relation to gw1's pve and the changes they're trying to make for gw2 can be summed up simply as:
Take for example, basically any encounter in gw1. You can literally just c+space and tunnel vision the hell out of monsters. It doesn't matter. In Warcraft - and hopefully, by extension gw2 - if you're not aware of what's going on around you, and you don't have the skill to position yourself properly while properly executing your required role, you will die.
And that is a very, very, good thing.Blinkie Ponie Armie [BPA] :: The Order of Dii [Dii]
19-05-2011, 02:50 #6
Y'know, that makes me think, how bloody awesome would it be if it (or any mmo) had DMC3/Bayonetta gameplay depth? Obviously not exactly the same, as the roles of diff. characters would require diff. gameplay, but a similar focus on movement and enemy awareness, with maybe even an emphasis on combos... I have no idea if something like that could work in a(n?) MMO - especially with PvP (although, Anarchy Reigns could offer some innovation into those workings...), but I hope GW2 will be at least facing in that direction.
19-05-2011, 02:56 #7
Ugh, I hope not. I suck so much at those style of games, I can never remember combos and end up spamming the same attacks.
19-05-2011, 02:59 #8
I don't often play console games, but my friend had a demo of both Devil May Cry 4 and Bayonetta. The "depth" seemed to consist of running around mashing various attack buttons, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean in that regard. Reminded me of the God of War games.. which is basically like Diablo 2 in 3d.
And I don't mean that as a good thing when it comes to an MMO.Blinkie Ponie Armie [BPA] :: The Order of Dii [Dii]
19-05-2011, 02:59 #9
Yeah God of War is a lot like DMC/Bayonetta. Those games are all pretty similar, gameplay wise.
19-05-2011, 03:17 #10
And very often (can't really speak for GoW- never really got into it) there is a tonne of depth in these games, especially when trying to get good scores. Mashing buttons or repeating the same combo will only get you so far...
I'm not saying GW2 will be like this, but as someone who tends to really enjoy that kind of game, I was just wondering what one would be like in an mmo format (drastically different to all the MMOs I've played, the only serious one of which is GW...)