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  1. #61
    Well, there is no need for secondary professions when each profession is meant to be able to do a decent range of things already. Pre-selected weapon skills are good because they are easier to balance, making it harder to put together a skill set that is just bad. Guns own and are a natural progression of the blackpowder and cannons that exist in the first game, over 200 years prior to the sequel. The thief is a decent, generic name for the hit-and-run sneaky class with the added bonus of really being able to steal things. Not that you have to be interested in every class to play the game. I don't care about the ranger or the thief but there are other possibilities.

    On the whole it looks like they are going to make the game play superior to GW1 in basically every possible way. I have no idea how well they are going to pull off organic events and so on but it's quite a lot more ambitious than the first game. Based on the strength of the ideas shown so far they deserve to succeed at it.

    Your nausea isn't something anyone here can do anything about. Sorry.


    Check back in a couple of months, I guess, or when the beta starts. We'll really know how things work then.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kjell View Post
    Well, there is no need for secondary professions when each profession is meant to be able to do a decent range of things already.
    The point of secondary professions wasn't to make people able to exceed their role*, but to make them choose which utility they wanted.

    Example: A W/E was never meant to bring Meteor Shower. She was meant to take, for example, Conjure Flame (with an appropriate weapon) to deal extra damage. On the other hand, she can't bring a condition remover. She'd have to be /R, /Mo or /N for that - and each of those secondaries have removers with their own flavor.

    * Despite what Gaile said about playing a ranger healer... That just doesn't work.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosyfiep View Post
    MOST of what I bought gw for will be gone (2ndary professions for one). Dont like the new professions (thief really). and guns?????? (shakes head)....and preselected 'weapons' skills????
    It took me some time, but I came to understand how these changes are consistent with their philosophy, while also improving on it.

    The point of dual prof was more to give you a wider range of skills to choose from, so you could add utility or in some cases versatility.

    Preselected skills might sound bad, but it also comes with 2 extra slots, a weapon swap (or some alternative). Not only does that give you plenty of customizability, but it also allows you to swap role in combat making you very versatile. You no longer need a second profession for your warrior to do ranged damage, for example, that's included in your weapon swap.

    But the advantage of all this is that each profession keeps its theme. I don't care for that much, but it makes it easier to balance and keep the gameplay focused, while allowing unique gameplay for each profession.

    Most MMOs shoehorn you into a role, or makes it hard to be versatile. GW was innovating with their dual prof in that respect, and I see recent changes as not deviating from this goal, but deviating in how they achieve it.

    As for your nausea, I'm working on it. No, actually, I did some work on virtual-reality-induced sickness. But we're not near a good solution yet. You might want to try gravol (or some motion sickness medecine) taken before you play, that is the only advice I can think of. And yes, I know, you're not actually moving, but trust me on this, it works for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjell View Post
    The thief is a decent, generic name for the hit-and-run sneaky class
    The name "Thief" emphasizes that this isn't to be played as a frontliner... which tbh "Assassin" gave the impression to some people that it was a frontliner and the whole mess started. It's important that the name & lore gives the right impression about what gameplay is about.

    As for whether it's a good profession, well, there's certainly a good demand for that type of gameplay. It's not my cup of tea, or I should say, I prefer to play Splinter Cell when I want to play this type of gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    A W/E was never meant to bring Meteor Shower.
    Not really. Meteor shower combined with cripple can be a fun combo (if not necessarily the most effective). The point of dual prof from my point of view was to give you more options to choose from on how to play.

    Of course, this was never really well explained by ANet. We haven't been told what we're allowed or not allowed to do with secondary professions. All we know is that there are some tradeoffs to take into consideration when using skills from your secondary profession.

    Now with races, this is a lot more clear what is allowed and what isn't. Racial skills are the new secondary profession, except that now we can't change it. What we can change, however, is our weapon, our traits, and our skills.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Not really. Meteor shower combined with cripple can be a fun combo (if not necessarily the most effective). The point of dual prof from my point of view was to give you more options to choose from on how to play.
    Yes really. Of course, one man's fun is another man's failure, and vice versa. Playing the Paladin* in RA is fun too.

    * "The Paladin" was one of the preset builds. It's basically the quintessential useless wammo, complete with Healing Hands, Mending, Restore Life, and a complete lack of IAS.

  5. #65
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    Admittedly, there are better combos.

    Minion master is fine as a rit for example. There's other examples where your main function comes from your secondary.
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  6. #66
    I like playing stupid combos like necro ranger or mesmer rit....these combos are GONE.
    its not the healing that I use my 2ndaries for---they have other skills I like to use (my me/r does a lot of interrupting using a bow as her weapon of choice)...now we are just going to have cookie cutters characters all over---why bother to make more than 10 skills for each profession then???? gee that would really make balancing easy!

    and I dont really think forcing me to have only 3 skill choices is such a good thing (5 FORCED weapon skills, a rez and some kind of healing leaves only 3 slots----which to me equals a very very very BORING game of everyone having the exact same set up YAWN!)....they have already shown us part of this with the keiran arc as well as the stupid commando prank----bad and bad and bad. I really dont care about this 'balance' thing you speak of as I have no intentions of playing pvp--and the pve stuff is pretty easy to just give the mobs different skills instead of trying to (poorly) balance them.

    if I want to play a game with guns there are PLENTY of them out there--guildwars to me was more of a fantasy game--no guns!!! it just leaves a very BAD taste in my mouth.
    I have yet to see ANY of the new professions that catch my eye (even the ele has been castrated).

    My guild enjoyed playing together--now we are going to have to play with dozens (or hundreds???) of other people ---not what I bought gw for---my guild is a family guild---time for us to get together and play with each other even though we live far apart.

    as for my motion sickness---drugs make it WORSE (and no I cant go on boats either and watching 'shaky cam' videos makes me puke).

    so lets try a few more bits of convincing....(months???? beta this year--maybe)

  7. #67
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    all the claims you made is done trough looking without using, it's like looking at soda and already say you don't like it, you can't know till you tried it.
    it's alive but cannot be living, it's dead but lives a mortal life.

    sorudo.9054

  8. #68
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    I agree, Cosyfiep, except for the parts you got wrong.

    1) Weapon skills are not forced, you usually have several weapons to choose from. Even the engineer can choose which weapons he brings in his backpack.
    2) You don't need a rez, you have that ability for free.
    3) You pick your elite. You pick your healing.
    4) The other 3 slots are optionals, but as you see, you've already made lots of choices.

    Balance matters for PvE too, in fact balance promotes having many viable alternative builds to pick from, instead of being forced to use cookiecutters. You should therefore care about it, if you care about snowflakes.

    You can easily play with your Guild. Form teams in persistent areas, with others can join in as they please. Or do missions or dungeons just you and your team.

    Guns and professions, plenty of other people are happy about those. Should ANet ignore them just to please you? Pro-hint... you don't need to love everything about a game to enjoy it, especially if you can choose the weapons and professions you use.

    And sorry to hear about your motion sickness. But that complaint is hardly specific to GW2... it applies to any 3D game with motion. So just about all MMOs, FPS's, and so many more...
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  9. #69
    1 weapons skills I am FORCED to have them---why cant I just have all spells or (like a rit) spirits??? nope gotttttta have a weapon--which has a specific set of skills (ok, there might be some choice as to which of those skills--but still forced to pick weapons skills).
    2 no rez...then what can you put in that spot?????
    3 oh boy I get to pick an elite---which is how gw is now--and only one. (from how many choices?) which has cause much debate from the start--why only one????


    balance...if you all are using say, a sword, you all are going to have the same set of what 5 skills--yeah that is balanced, but boring as ...... why bother to have choices at all for skills--if you use a sword you get these skills--what if I dont want to have frenzy???? (ok dont use it--now I have only 4 skills to pick from)....this sounds more cookie cutter than ever.

    'form teams in persistent areas'--so this means that what percentage of the game is persistent and what percent is not---and if I dont wish to play with others what percent of the game is basically wasted money for me??

    guns---guildwars never had them--PLENTY of people were happy to play without them--should we change the whole genre just to make those who play shoot-em-up games??? guess so.....this is changing the whole genre that guildwars was.....adding guns, next what, tanks and nuclear devises??? heck add submarines and gee what will you get??? another war genre. YAWN!
    Guildwars was fantasy...not war.----there are plenty of gun games out there (and more being added daily)....it had a good niche, now its going to be in the same as just about every other war game out there. (oh boy I can shoot guns!!!)......
    and WHY should I pick this gun game over the others????(if I were going to play one)

    (yes my motion sickness is RL not just for gw---and as I said it was present when I started to play---and with adding things like jumping et al --the changing camera view just makes it worse and worse....which is why I dont play 99.9999999% of video games....even spore makes me ill sometimes. the changes they are making --that I have seen from the vid clips--is going to make it almost impossible for me to play, and if I am not playing, my hubby wont be buying the game either nor my guild--we like to play games we can play together--so just saying).

  10. #70
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    A balanced game is one that offers many equally-viable alternatives.

    And no, I don't consider "everyone has the same build" as balanced, I consider it incredibly unbalanced, because there's no alternative. It's literally a game with all its weight on one side.

    The point is that flexible play is counted by the number of viable builds. You can play a warrior using only elementalist spells, but that's terrible. I don't count that as a valid gameplay choice.

    GW2's system has a lot of possible different builds, although arguably it gives fewer choices of terrible builds. Not a bad thing imo.

    I see no reason to believe that GW2 offers fewer balanced builds than GW1. In fact, I hear the opposite.

    ------

    The rest of your claims I'll ignore with no other reply than: "yeah, but the consumer base disagrees". GW2 isn't made for you, it's made for a lot of people.
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