First bits of Wind's of Change info /discussion

[shawn]

Yeah, we ran through a few of the quests, and then went back and tried the Hard Mode ones. And...

Really? Difficult?
What in the hell are you guys taking in with you?

Let's recap:
I haven't played in about two years or more. Raye and I did not discuss what builds we were taking whatsoever. When I talked to her about it after, I found out that she didn't bring any condition removal, was wearing the wrong armor, and her hero monk was set up for Urgoz runs. I brought a generic axe build, Evis, Exec, Body Blow, that overpowered dwarf KD skill, and Frenzy - yes, Frenzy. Oh, and to make things more interesting I'd been talking with my friend Jack Daniels a bit. Mmmm.

We died once, when I err7'ed right in the middle of the pool toward the end of that afflicted swarm quest. There was no skill required. Likewise for hard mode, it was the same thing with more afflicted and more damage - had we bothered planning, we could have brought extra AoE heals, or more skills to exploit the AI. But we didn't.


If someone that hasn't played in two years can go in with a bunch of heroes, completely unplanned, and utterly destroy it, then you would think that the people who have been still playing all this time would be better at it. C'mon... You can better yourselves. I promise you that becoming better players does not make the game less fun.

Unless, of course, you find it enjoyable to die all the time in normal mode.
In which case, carry on. But stop complaining about how much you're dying on the forums.

[Alaris]

Shawn, I think a lot of complainers rely on the standard lulwat builds, you know, sabway et al. But a lot of that new content is kinda geared to challenge those builds (I assume). So if you're running something else, then you're set.

It's like running a MM-heavy team in a golem-heavy zone. Not gonna happen.

[Erring Ryft]

Actually, it seems like a lot of the new content is running those builds. Pretty sure I saw an afflicted necro running some sort of discrap, and the Mesmers seem to be hitting the Mind Wrack/Esurge combo pretty hard as well. Now, if any of them could heal/prot for crap (think some of the Am Fah had SoA, not sure), we might have a problem...but they just line up to die pretty quickly, especially if you've got any AoE (splinter et al)

[Gorani]

Really? Difficult?
What in the hell are you guys taking in with you?

I am not complaining about the difficulty, but about the quest design, if that comment was aimed at me. Difficulty is fine, design is bad.

(Minor spoilers ahead, for those you have not played them)

e.g.

Rescue at Minister Cho's Estate
Objectives
Search for survivors at Minister Cho's Estate.
See Initiate Zei Ri for your reward.

Here you not only have to find them, but keep the survivors alive. If one dies, you will fail the quest. The Initiate will rezz himself & you will rezz too at a shrine.


Cleansing Shenzun Tunnels
Objectives
Defeat the Afflicted in Shenzun Tunnels.
See Initiate Zei Ri for your reward.

Allies
28 Initiate Jaw Long
28 Initiate Shuji
28 Initiate Kan Wu
28 Initiate Shunyuang
28 Initiate Zei Ri

Here, the extra initiates are allowed to die, Zei Ri will rezz automatically. You rezz at a shrine.

When Kappa Attack
Objectives
Meet Ministry Agent Oroku in the Undercity.
Escort Oroku to the corrupted locations so that he can purify them. x of 3 purified. Oroku must survive.

In this quest, you have to protect Oroku. There they have put a warning in the quest description, why not at the Cho's quest?

Light my Fire
Objectives
Meet Imperial Guard Lei Jeng in Xaquang Skyway
Find and capture the missing Fire Drakes: _ of 5 remaining.
Prevent the Am Fah and the Jade Brotherhood from taking the Drakes.

Again, you don't know if every Drake has to survive (it doesn't matter) to be able to finish the quest or if it will auto-fail when one dies.

Long things short: quest design for WoC is not well implemented so far.

[shawn]

Wasn't aimed at you, as I agree with you - the quests are boring as ****.

[CHIPS]

The final two Afflicted killed the last peasant survivor in the Cho's Estate quest.
Wow, after 45 minutes of tough fights with a 4 man hero team, that was not something I needed. If I had know, I would rezz on a shrine, I might have tried to sacrificed myself to get the Afflicted away from the spot.

So far, the fun I had with the new quests is nothing compared to the frustration of quest design (repetitive, assaults, kill 10 rats and NPCs you have to protect that love to be killed)

Yeah you are probably better off killing all the afflicted in the way first. Then just take those survivors for a walk in the park.

Very annoying quest. Those survivor should auto res after a while. Keeping dumb NPCs alive is not fun. And even less fun with only 4 players.

Your monk is the ONLY person responsible for keeping those survivors alive. So if he fails just ONCE it is party fail. And those dumb NPCs will go around those Afflicted, knowing full well they will explode on death. So ONE mistake it is gg.

[Age]

To me there is really no difference between NM or HM as the reward is the same much like WiK.This is why I do it in NM beside I just want to relax and don't want to micromanage heros.

I only did one WoC on my Ele.

[Lytha]

It's like running a MM-heavy team in a golem-heavy zone. Not gonna happen.

Uhm... I bring my Olias with me for Oola's lab and the Golemancer quest. He usually has a minion or so with him (AotL), and that works well enough as aggro magnet. Never wiped there or experienced any difficulties or even hero deaths. Neither in HM nor in NM.

When I brought Koss or some other crap along instead on previous characters, it was always a much worse ride.

To me there is really no difference between NM or HM as the reward is the same much like WiK.

You do get 2 ministerial recommendations in HM, so that's 3 per quest. As a result, I could get my amazing fan weapon already after cleansing Pongmei (plus Light My Fire).

When you only do it in NM, you will get it much later.

[sorudo]

There's actually quite a few level 28s in NM. Torment Creatures in RoT, the Shiro'ken in the palace and Jade Sea, and most of the Titans. HM bumps them all up to 30 or more. They're all in areas surrounding the final missions. And since GW:B takes place after the final missions, it makes sense that the mobs would be of a comparable level.

actually, inflicted are like zombies, they can't get any stronger then they already are.
also, the enemies you describe are suppose to be that powerful or it makes no difference who you fight, the inflicted however are suppose to be a weak but large amount kind of enemy.
a bit like the zerg rush, they are really weak but in numbers are quite powerful and that's how the inflicted should be.

Incorrect, hard mode was put into the game because some people did not feel normal mode was difficult enough and were complaining about constantly c spacing enemies. That is in fact why I brought up hard mode, because some people were complaining these quests were too easy. Hard mode is not simply there for more rewards, it's there for those who are getting bored with the difficulty of normal mode.

i just said that.....maybe you forgot to put your glasses on?

[Feannag]

actually, inflicted are like zombies, they can't get any stronger then they already are.
also, the enemies you describe are suppose to be that powerful or it makes no difference who you fight, the inflicted however are suppose to be a weak but large amount kind of enemy.
a bit like the zerg rush, they are really weak but in numbers are quite powerful and that's how the inflicted should be.

"Can't" goes out the window, because obviously they did get stronger. According to the wiki, the Afflicted in the Jade Sea, Echovald and Sunjiang District are all level 24, just like the ones in the WoC NM quests. The only difference is their skill bars. So they're not really that much stronger anyway, just better armed and less predictable.

Maybe not all of Shiro's corruption vanished when we killed him, and there's someone experimenting with it on the Afflicted to make them more dangerous. Very possible, and we've already seen that the corruption(or something close to it) is still around in "When Kappa Attack".