If the last profession is not a mesmer

[Tyris Requiem]

The final profession will be Mesmer for sure.

[Alaris]

Aoi, that skill is evil

[brunhild]

@djacob:

@brunhild:

I am not too concerned about duplicating functions, ANet seems to want a lot of overlap in function, and make the difference between professions more about gameplay style. Anyone can damage at a range, many can melee, many (or all) can support, etc.

I agree, duplication of some limited sets of functions are not only warranted, but necessary in PvE settings, so I don't think that would be a problem. But what you would suggest would actually duplication most of the distinctive functions of the engineer in another profession, that's why I don't think it will happen. Especially given that there are many other possibilities of playing mechanisms that have not been covered yet.

Thought I can see mesmers having more punishing-like skills and disabling-like skills, some of that could be implemented in summons of the floating weapon or phantasm variety.

I think that would mostly make it like the old rit + some old mes characteristics. Punishing skills are largely gone from the new game; hexes no longer exist, and energy management has faded as a mechanism. Just to bring these same things back with different names doesn't make any sense. Everything else that you referred to is already covered amply by the engineer, so I doubt that any of these would be the focus of the new Mes profession.

Pure illusions I think would not work well because (1) having a profession centered on AI is problematic in PvP, (2) having a profession who has low damage is generally problematic in PvE, and (3) doing damage is fun.

On the contrary, pure illusions would work wonders on PvE. Remember the minion masters of GW1, which were extremely effective for PvE, given that the individual AI controlled monsters do not make the distinction between minions and masters. This will be more amplified with pure illusionary skills, if the new profession is allowed to multiply illusionary characters with small cost. If played right, this set of skills would allow any Mesmer to sustain little to no damage during PvE, actually that would make the new Mes an essential component of any top-notch PvE team.

[Alaris]

(...)

Well, we can agree to disagree, all this is purely speculative anyway.

About the rit, of course it's too close to engineer at the moment, but the GW2 rit could be changes quite a bit from the GW1. Some spirits could be turrets, but other spirits could be mobile (spirit weapons?). Also, rit would probably not have kits, but rather a bunch of weapons + weapon swap + a different profession-specific mechanic. Potentially, spirit strength could make the rit melee-range capable, much like the necro has his own melee-range set of skills.

My bet though is that the mesmer will have ways to punish, shutdown, and oh yeah, even hex (by any other name). It would be his profession-unique ability, if you will.

As for the mesmer being essential... remember, ANet's vision is to avoid GLF. You want the mesmer to be not only balanced, but also capable of functioning alone, with a team, or even with a mesmer-mostly team.

[Minionman]

Interesting how the thread started to speculate about posible non-mesmer classes has largely been about mesmers.

About the rit, of course it's too close to engineer at the moment, but the GW2 rit could be changes quite a bit from the GW1. Some spirits could be turrets, but other spirits could be mobile (spirit weapons?). Also, rit would probably not have kits, but rather a bunch of weapons + weapon swap + a different profession-specific mechanic. Potentially, spirit strength could make the rit melee-range capable, much like the necro has his own melee-range set of skills.

The spoilered ritualist idea includes some of these differences, though also includes some engineer similar stuff as well. (Though as speculation for something very unlikely, it doesn't have to be that great).

This does bring up something I'd never thought of, though, whether the engineer kit skills are based in some vague way off of ritualist ashes or weapons spells. There isn't much of a connection at the moment, but it does seem possible that the mechanics may have evolved through stages to go from ashes to weapon kits.

Chronomancer would be awesome.

I can not see a caster class that would fit the game mechanic of "hex" better than the Mesmer, even if we see hexes in a completely different form in GW2 than in GW1.

Anet did say there would not be a chronomancer (Of course, that doesn't mean much for this particular thread :) ), but I did think some sort of time/space manipulator could be the sort of character that could fit a mesmer like role while still being distinct. Disruption and annoyance type skills would fit quite well on such a character, while the setting idea of the character is quite distinct from anything else in the game.

It is quite tough to think of non-mesmer possibilities that feel like they could work well, not just because of all the Anet announcements and concept art pointing so strongly towards a mesmer, but because I'm finding it hard to think of a distinctive type of magic that works well with the rest of the Guild Wars universe.

[djacob]

Interesting how the thread started to speculate about posible non-mesmer classes has largely been about mesmers.

The spoilered ritualist idea includes some of these differences, though also includes some engineer similar stuff as well. (Though as speculation for something very unlikely, it doesn't have to be that great).

This does bring up something I'd never thought of, though, whether the engineer kit skills are based in some vague way off of ritualist ashes or weapons spells. There isn't much of a connection at the moment, but it does seem possible that the mechanics may have evolved through stages to go from ashes to weapon kits.

Anet did say there would not be a chronomancer (Of course, that doesn't mean much for this particular thread :) ), but I did think some sort of time/space manipulator could be the sort of character that could fit a mesmer like role while still being distinct. Disruption and annoyance type skills would fit quite well on such a character, while the setting idea of the character is quite distinct from anything else in the game.

It is quite tough to think of non-mesmer possibilities that feel like they could work well, not just because of all the Anet announcements and concept art pointing so strongly towards a mesmer, but because I'm finding it hard to think of a distinctive type of magic that works well with the rest of the Guild Wars universe.

Your last paragraph explains the first, also this:

The final profession will be Mesmer for sure.

Anyway, I'll try and humor the discussion. How about magician? Would there be some title that would be more female friendly? I've always associated magicians with males, although I wouldn't be surprised if female magicians used the same title. Mage might be another way of putting it, but that seems to be too associated with final fantasy and less with magicians.

The idea behind the class would be slightly similar to mesmers, but would focus more on misdirection, some of their support skills could include making party members invisible and such. They could have a carnivorous rabbit summon that has the ability to fly at people's necks, and throw magically charged decks of cards at people.

[sorudo]

ask your self this, is the mesmer just a name or the profession?
you can't have the profession in GW2 so there is nothing left other then the name, IMO a name is nothing without it's purpose.

[Alaris]

@sorudo and the others.

In GW1, warriors didn't have ranged attacks. They do in GW2, because secondary profession is no longer there to give them that ability. Instead, warriors have their own ranged weapon skills.

In GW1, necros and elementalists were not healers. They are in GW2, because primary healers are no longer in the game. But they heal and support in ways that fits their profession.

In GW1, rangers had to pick between a pet or better other skills, in part to ensure balance with /R. In GW2, they have both as their profession-specific mechanic, and other professions have to find other ways to bring summons if they want that.

In GW1, assassins used the same energy pool for movement, attacks, and buffs. In GW2, thieves have separate energy pools for different functions, making it possible to balance each aspect separately, and not having to trade-off one aspect for another.

See a pattern? Everytime ANet changed a fundamental rule of how GW works, they found ways to compensate or innovate while keeping the flavor.

There's plenty of ways to evolve the mesmer such that the role and general gameplay is kept, yet that it would fit better within the GW2 universe. And trust me, with the creative force at ANet, they have figured out this little problem a long time ago.

[raspberry jam]

I think the final profession will be the elementalist. It was the first character I created in GW1 and I bet it will make a comeback in GW2.

Elementalists were not favored in GW1 HM because of the high armor level of many enemies. But I think that with new interesting skills and no HM, elementalists can be powerful characters in GW2.

I hope that the final profession will be the elementalist. It would be horrible if it was the mesmer, I think. Consider what would happen if it was not our elementalist. The master, or mistress, of the four elements (fire, energy storage, water, and air) of magic must make a return.

[Alaris]

Hahah jam! Good one.

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Also, I'd like to say it again because it can't be over-emphasized... there's no reason to think that mesmers won't play a similar role as they did in GW1 (except for having to be able to solo, etc).

Keep in mind that every profession has a profession-unique mechanic. This should serve as enough counter-argument to everyone who says "no hexes in GW2" and "no edenial in GW2".

The point about no hexes was to simplify the game... it was a lot of learning to know all the hexes and what they do, and to balance the hex removal. But there's nothing to stop the mesmer from having a few hexes.

In fact, other professions have hexes already (they're just not called hexes).