Idea: Repeat quests to help other players=>Get highly rewarded!

[Simply Kedde]

mmm, i really don't remember saying that titles are no fun.......is there a ghost talking or something......saying things and showing false info?

Fine, we use your wording instead. "People who put the fun in gameplay as a secondary objective to moving a purple bar".

Doesn't really change anything.

[sorudo]

nop, still not saying that.....

[Смерть]

There is already the quests in HM for that extra challenge + reward. The same for helping others looks to me like an in-game reward system for rushers (as others have commented on); I do not see this happening.

[CHIPS]

You get 24 gemstones as quest rewards alone, and I've never done a run where I didn't get at least one gemstone drop. Usually you get more like 4-8 gem drops per run. That's ~28 - 32 gems per run.

Anyway, rewards in GW stuff is dumb. You don't need any equipment at all, so what could they possibly give you? Just trinkets like gemstones that give you ugly weapons.

The actual reward for doing hard content (or any content for that matter) is that you think it's fun.

Sorry but what quest reward? I killed 2 of the 4 bosses, Lord Jadoth and Dreadspawn Maw. I did the side quests like Brood Wars. None of them gives gemstones as a direct reward.

According to the wiki, only the final quest gives Gemstones, 1 of each type. Never got there to find out. But that reward was minimal anyways. You need 15 of each type for the weapon, totally 60. Even if I finish that whole quest, I am still nowhere near getting the weapon.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gemstone

[BladeDVD]

nop, still not saying that.....

did you know there was a time when playing with teams is fun.......until titles came along and spoiled everything,

This sounds like you are saying that titles ruined the fun of teaming up together which you earlier said the game was essentially based around. Kedde's essentially saying that you don't think titles are a good thing, let's not get into semantics.

And I don't know why you are denying you said this, it's a perfectly valid argument.

If you want to make the titles/achievements only secondary to the fun in playing, then what's the point in putting a limitation on how to earn the title. The only people who would want to get the title, would by your definition be people who don't care about fun. So why is it desirable to force them to play together if they don't even play for the fun in it? Especially considering it'll be extremely likely to also hit the people stuck on middle ground between wanting to go for titles, but also just finding gameplay fun but wanting some challenge.

He would prefer that titles were secondary, but since the reality is that they are what is currently driving a large part of the player base then let's use them to try to get people to play together more. He's just taking a stick approach with his proposed idea (with the protector/guardian titles) rather than a carrot approach. I don't think it's a good idea, but then I like the freedom of being able to do things solo. Some people take a very hard core stance on team play in MMOs, so this may not be as unpopular an idea as you and I may think. I still think it would kill the game, but I can imagine there are more people than you might expect who would agree with it.

Sorry but what quest reward? I killed 2 of the 4 bosses, Lord Jadoth and Dreadspawn Maw. I did the side quests like Brood Wars. None of them gives gemstones as a direct reward.

According to the wiki, only the final quest gives Gemstones, 1 of each type. Never got there to find out. But that reward was minimal anyways. You need 15 of each type for the weapon, totally 60. Even if I finish that whole quest, I am still nowhere near getting the weapon.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gemstone

If you take and complete the main DOA quests a chest spawns after each quest (I believe there are 4 + mallyx). If you do them all in a single sitting you get progressively more gems from subsequent quest completion. The rewards are doubled in HM

I assume that's what Fluffball was referring to.

[Fluffball]

Good grief CHIPS, did you not know there are 5 chests in the DoA? No wonder you don't like going in there.

That's probably why you've never gotten gems to drop as well. You have to go in and spend some time doing the quests, not just pop in and kill a couple monsters.

[Age]

When you help players in low level areas why couldn't they do a buff that lowers your attributes, and armor rating? Kind of like a reverse version of Journey to the North, or Sunspear Battle Call. You would only get the buff in low level areas when grouped with low level human players.

That would stop the exploitation I believe. But there has to be something to it to make it appealing. Maybe increase your monetary gain from drops. Maybe giving the high level player an item as a reward for completion. A salvage kit for mission, an expert salvage kit for mission + bonus. Maybe give the mission reward multiplied by how many levels you are above the requirement.

You can set your attributes to 0 and wear low lvl armour as well as use low lvl weapons no heros.

I would say rep system would be best.

[Alaris]

There's a hard mode for that.

The problem is that you can't really expect people to be eternally entertained by a given game. Early areas are tutorial areas, which by definition makes them less complex than other areas, even in hard mode.

[CHIPS]

Good grief CHIPS, did you not know there are 5 chests in the DoA? No wonder you don't like going in there.

That's probably why you've never gotten gems to drop as well. You have to go in and spend some time doing the quests, not just pop in and kill a couple monsters.

Well I hasn't been to DoA for ages. Checking the quest log I only killed Lord Jadoth out of the 4. Strange b/c I thought I did killed Maw in one of the z quests. Anyways I checked the wiki and Jadoth's chest drops 1-4 gemstones. So I guess I got one from killing mobs, and 1 from the chest.

Its been too long. Don't remember. But I did attempted that area many times and got beaten back many times. Maybe I should try that area again.

[Simply Kedde]

He would prefer that titles were secondary, but since the reality is that they are what is currently driving a large part of the player base then let's use them to try to get people to play together more. He's just taking a stick approach with his proposed idea (with the protector/guardian titles) rather than a carrot approach. I don't think it's a good idea, but then I like the freedom of being able to do things solo. Some people take a very hard core stance on team play in MMOs, so this may not be as unpopular an idea as you and I may think. I still think it would kill the game, but I can imagine there are more people than you might expect who would agree with it.

That's exactly it. I only ever said I disagreed with the means, not the premise. Being utterly stubborn for the sake of it doesn't further his point, but I guess it wasn't exactly unexpected.

However, as you mention yourself this is imposing big limitations on the players that are out of their control. Most people living in the SEA region, AUS or NZ can probably attest to this. There are very few people playing when it's primetime for them. Is it fair to severely limit their ability to achieve these titles, not because they're unable to skillwise, but because of some arbitrary limitation they can't easily work around.

I'm fine with forced teamwork, hell I've often advised it and argued for it in the past. This however is definitely not the right way to make it work. What you need instead, are quests, missions and areas that are complex and challenging(note, not meaning as in super difficult, but require teamwork) enough that they're not possible to do alone, barring perhaps some top level players. You don't want the limiting factor to be an arbitrary number for the sake of it, you want it to be actual challenge instead of the illusion of a challenge, or even a challenge that is social rather the rooted in gameplay.