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    Exclamation [IncGamers News Item] The trinity vs the hybrid

    A Guild Wars 2 podcast (see link in roundup below) played devilís advocate trying to list possible reasons why Guild Wars 2 might fail. One was that players will figure out what the best builds are, and how to make the trinity work. They used the guardian as a tank in their example (which they [...]

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    Last edited by Lensor; 28-11-2011 at 17:32.

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    Hey why do you get the post for that? Post-stealer you...
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    An interesting conversation to be had, but as you have pointed out in Anet's planning, they have safely crafted the system incapable of the "old routine". For repetition sake, one could try to play the old way, but it is so watered down, it just would not be worth playing in the first place. Dynamic events just further push players into this new play style.

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    If anything, trinity play might be more relevant in dungeons, especially hard mode ones (I forget how they call it, the mode that isn't story mode).

    The question is that given players are fairly hybrid by design, would be still be better to play specialized roles (e.g. trinity) given that it is cognitively simpler to play roles than hybrids?

    My hope is that they've balanced it so trinity is possible, but balanced hybrid is more efficient even with a bit of lack of communication.

    Trinity gameplay tends to have problems outside of instances.
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    I hate trinity gameplay; I've just never found a game that really abolishes it, no matter what has been said leading up to release.

    Then again, I tend to like hybrid characters. I definitely enjoy being in the fray, but I'm not really all about being a tank. I like healing and buffing, but I don't (usually) want to be main healer for the group. My favorite character ever was my Beastlord in EQ (Shaman / Monk hybrid).

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    I have to ask though, of the games that have failed to abolish it... how many have really tried?

    I think to abolish something and be successful, you need to replace it with something better. I do love hybrids because they bring more complexity to the gameplay... you have the whole dimension of correctly recognizing what your team needs. Likewise, WoW Druids are very flexible which makes it a pro for that profession. But not everyone wants to (or can handle) this level of complexity.

    I'd tend to say "too bad so sad" but I don't want to be elitist. Is ANet's solution really better?
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    We won't really know until we play. We won't even know if it's actually going to abolish the trinity system until we play.

    VG's solution was kind of cool and, had they finished the game and people had played it, I think it would helped (not fixed the problem). They weren't really trying to abolish the trinity, but their solution was to make SO MANY CLASSES that it didn't even matter. And all the classes worked differently, to entice people to play one that fit their style. It wasn't like there WEREN'T healers or tanks, but there were four healers and three tanks (fourth tank was delayed, looks like it's still not in lulz).

    From Wikipedia
    The core concept of Vanguard's class system is the design for grouping. All of the classes can perform one of the three major MMORPG roles: tank, healer, or damage dealer. All tanks and healers are supposed to perform their job about as well as their peers, although in specific situations one class will be better than another. DPS classes vary in their roles: the Bard, while it belongs to the offensive fighter group, is more of a support class and crowd control specialist than a pure damage dealer.
    But, yeah, it was a mess of a game, so it's hard to say how it would have worked. I played a healer and my friend played a tank, so we never had an issue.

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    So, who did the damage?

    I personally prefer professions that can adopt many roles. I think this is more the direction the MMO community is going towards. It makes it easier too to add classes, as they don't have to do new things, they just have to do it differently.

    And if hybrids are the norm, it makes it a lot easier to add in new classes that are also hybrids. The problem with GW1 was that some classes were good at being hybrids, others were meant to specialize... so it was a mess to balance.
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    Vanguard was like this:
    Protective Fighters (Tanks)
    Offensive Fighters (Melee DPS)
    Defensive Casters (Healers)
    Offensive Casters (Magic DPS)

    Each category was supposed to have four classes (tanks only ended up with three, as noted above). Each class had different abilities, so a lot really were hybrids (I played Shaman, for example, and was quite capable of dealing damage, buffing, debuffing; my friend was a Paladin, so he could also heal; Druids were offensive, but could heal; Monks were offensive, but could tank with the right build - I think). It really was quite a nice system and the classes were a lot of fun, very unique. Unfortunate how little SOE ended up caring about the game.

  10. #10
    With the exception of some speedclears, tanking is a bad idea in GW1, and yet people occasionally try it. Being stupid for not taking advantage of the intended game mechanics never stopped anyone.

    But it doesn't sound like that will have any impact on the game, especially if tank groups can't make progress.

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