Disappointment?

[kokabel]

Having considered it and settled down a bit after the excitement, I am wondering the same sorts of things. Mesmer was one of the most fun classes to play in PvP land - I never played it at any serious level, but I can safely say I made several high level players rage (which is surely a sign you're doing a good job). I will miss the way it required you to understand the other classes (and types of players too) to better exploit their mistakes, I'm just not sure I am seeing that in the GW2 mesmer.

It's not that this type of gameplay is bad or unwanted, it's actually fun in many other games. It is however not unique.
I just really hope the way skills interact with each other will help replace the unique teamplay that guildwars had with something that can give the same feeling.
There's simply no other game than guildwars which has ever given me the same feeling of enlightened teamwork. It's such a great feeling when 8 people all know what they're meant to do instinctively and just flow around the battlefield like a unified presence. That is what we want to feel when playing gw2, and the biggest fear is that we won't get that same feeling.

This this this. GW1 opened my eyes to what TEAMWORK should be and really means - prior to this I would always have considered myself someone who preferred to do stuff alone (in game, or otherwise), now I've experienced the magic of the team entity I want more, and I really, really hope GW2 PvP can provide the same opportunities. I mean, I never used to really watch sports team-games; now I will catch myself occasionally taking a peek, or not minding if friends want to watch the football, because I find myself being able to appreciate observing how teams in every situation work together on tactics and supporting each other in their roles. For this reason I always found that GW1 PvP could actually be quite cerebral - a quality not many games, especially not many PvP games, can offer. I would be sad to lose that quality.

[Alaris]

Here's why you guys don't have to worry.

Hexes are still in, but now you can see them. Those are not minions, they are hexes. Pure and simple. They have no tanking power, they don't go from foe to foe.

Hex removal is still in, but now anyone can use their sword (or whatever) and bash hexes on the head to remove them. You don't need special skills anymore. It's like hard rezzing, everyone can do it now.

Punishment is still in: Confusion, Backfire, etc.

Interrupts are still in... the only real loss is that it's been somewhat toned down into more proactive interrupting rather than reactive.

Clones replace hexes that made you miss, they are game-mechanics-wise the same as proactive interrupts. Except that now, if you can be clever enough to know which is the clone, you can ignore it and not be affected by the skill. But that still gives you an initial delay, and requires player skill.

Keeping people hex-free is still important. But now that's not a monk thing, it's a team thing. Anyone can see someone under heavy hexes and decide to help out with cleaning them.

[Смерть]

I am happy that the Mesmer (along side the Ele) brings yet another stack-able condition for the Necromancer's Feast of Corruption and Unholy Feast to work on >:)

[Fluffball]

I think the opposite might be true (referring to OP). In GW1, it was all about 8 vs 20 or etc. In that scenario, mesmers were damn near useless until they made them ridiculous AoE machines that require no finesse. The fact that Panic is in the game and occasionally useful is retarded.

I think in GW2 it looks very different. From what we've seen the battles are smaller (e.g. 2 vs 6.) In that case, and also noting that there are no monks, things like the equivalent of Imagined Burden become super important. Imagined Burden in GW1 PvE is no good.

[Akirai Annuvil]

~

Think of GW2 PvP as LoL or DotA, it's closer than GW1 PvP. It sounds like Mesmers will be frustrating akin to a good Wukong or Karma was, but in no way as a good Mesmer was.

Think of clones as your defensive skills, and of phantasms as your hexes.

And just think of swords as rainbows and daggers as clouds.

[Jazzik]

I think the opposite might be true (referring to OP). In GW1, it was all about 8 vs 20 or etc. In that scenario, mesmers were damn near useless until they made them ridiculous AoE machines that require no finesse. The fact that Panic is in the game and occasionally useful is retarded.

I think in GW2 it looks very different. From what we've seen the battles are smaller (e.g. 2 vs 6.) In that case, and also noting that there are no monks, things like the equivalent of Imagined Burden become super important. Imagined Burden in GW1 PvE is no good.

I am more interested in the PvP side of things, I stopped playing after the expansion packs made the game ridiculous anyway. Mesmers when I played were mostly useless, but that was because of bad players. A good mesmer decided which team won,

Alaris, I still cant see how the new system is going to be the same or as good as the original mesmers were. The fact you can kill the phantasms/clones/whatever yourself, or even splat them all with an AoE in my view would render them pointless. Reactive interupts was what made them fun, and made the difference between skill and just pushing the buttons in order.

I'm not convinced at all, I'll give it a go but... I'm pretty sure I'll wind up playing something else. Akirai, I think I completely agree with you, they'll be annoying to play against but not in the same league as a good pre-expansion Domination mesmer :)

[Simply Kedde]

Here's why you guys don't have to worry.

Hexes are still in, but now you can see them. Those are not minions, they are hexes. Pure and simple. They have no tanking power, they don't go from foe to foe.

Hex removal is still in, but now anyone can use their sword (or whatever) and bash hexes on the head to remove them. You don't need special skills anymore. It's like hard rezzing, everyone can do it now.

Punishment is still in: Confusion, Backfire, etc.

Interrupts are still in... the only real loss is that it's been somewhat toned down into more proactive interrupting rather than reactive.

Clones replace hexes that made you miss, they are game-mechanics-wise the same as proactive interrupts. Except that now, if you can be clever enough to know which is the clone, you can ignore it and not be affected by the skill. But that still gives you an initial delay, and requires player skill.

Keeping people hex-free is still important. But now that's not a monk thing, it's a team thing. Anyone can see someone under heavy hexes and decide to help out with cleaning them.

I don't see your point about this at all. How does the fact that hexes still require the whole team to counter efficiently reproduce the teamwork required on your side to make them efficient? Put backfire on their ele, their team needs to deal with it, but what did that require from your team apart from "deal damage while it's up, pull back when it's killed"?

It's reactive punishment, an incentive not to do specific things lest you get punished. Not anywhere near as interesting as our original diversion, shame, energy denial etc. The things that required your effort to make them effective rather than requiring them to react and perform their acts in spite of the punishment.

The play that the enemy has to weigh the punishment up against the action they can perform is certainly not a bad thing. It's good, but so far it's all we've gotten so far that remotely mimics the shutdown role we used to have. For anyone who ever tried it out originally that just doesn't cut it for originality.

[Fluffball]

I am more interested in the PvP side of things, I stopped playing after the expansion packs made the game ridiculous anyway. Mesmers when I played were mostly useless, but that was because of bad players. A good mesmer decided which team won,

I think we're still talking about the same thing. It appears mesmers are still all about stopping enemies. There are no monks so all professions must stay alive by preventing damage, which may be what feels different (i.e everyone must be a little bit mesmerish.) It looks like mesmers still do it with brutally annoying style though.

For example the teleport thing looks useless in the preview, but imagine using that against a human. Things can get really creative really quickly. I mean the obvious example is demolishing the rarely used elite skills, but there are a million other things that come to mind.

[Alaris]

Alaris, I still cant see how the new system is going to be the same or as good as the original mesmers were.

Similar.

I'd say the new mesmer is probably better, because it is more forgiving of player errors. But they still leave space for good players to benefit from playing well.

There's also still space for reactive play using instant-cast interrupts (that do other effects too). But I don't think you could be a pure interrupt mesmer.

As for AoE wiping out the clones, you know, it'd be balanced in strength for how easy it is to wipe out. A great mesmer would know when and where to cast those so as to not get his clones wiped out too early.

A great player should decide a match, but independently of profession. Also, I think a good team should win over a terrible team with one great player.

I don't see your point about this at all.

My point is that GW2 mesmers do pretty much the same kind of things (role-wise) as they did in GW1. The specific way they do this has changed, but their overall role and general gameplay is similar.

I wrote more about this opinion of mine here:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/...er-has-evolved

[Akirai Annuvil]

Akirai, I think I completely agree with you, they'll be annoying to play against but not in the same league as a good pre-expansion Domination mesmer :)

Probably less annoying, but good juking is an art in itself and between stealth, clones and teleports the Mesmer's gonna excel. I do think that's where you'll find some incredible mind-games.

I mean the obvious example is demolishing the rarely used elite skills, but there are a million other things that come to mind.

I thought the obvious example was teleporting between capture points and trebuchet?

My point is that GW2 mesmers do pretty much the same kind of things (role-wise) as they did in GW1. The specific way they do this has changed, but their overall role and general gameplay is similar.

The overal role of a Curses necro was similar to a Mesmer yet it's gameplay was radically different. I'm not seeing the comparison.

(Though I do like your reference to "Your Necromancer is evolving!")