Disappointment?

[raspberry jam]

I think that the new mesmer has both good things going for it, and bad things. Clones seem like a cool thing. Laser beams, not so much. I basically concur with RDarken, but think that they show promise.

while I like intellectual play, I don't care much for the combination of twitch and encyclopedia. I know some people know every skill and which need to be interrupted, but not me.

What? augh you troll "I like reading, but only the first 15 letters of the alphabet"

[Alaris]

Clones/Phantasms DO simulate hexes, but they do it much differently, in a roundabout way that I'm not crazy about. You might like it, as someone who really likes pet classes.

I actually don't see clones and phantasms as pets at all. They are far too fragile and too short-lived to count as pets. In fact, clones can be one-hit, and both types disappear when your foe dies. You have almost no AI linked to them, which is fine because they are not meant to tank or follow you around. I see it far more as stacking & unstacking hexes.

The fact that they are in the world only counts to give you a universal way to disspell them... hex removal is done by literally hitting them in the head. Also, mesmers needed to be more visual.

I'm not crazy about shatter skills making the clones run up to target before shattering... seems the delay is good to reduce spike abuse but otherwise bad for twitch. Hexes in GW2 are more delayed, and I can't think of a valid reason for this aside from preventing spike abuses. Still, that'd be my main complaint.

Laser beams, not so much.

That's cosmetic though. I mean, we did end up loving those Jeebus beams, so why not lazers? I can see myself growing fond of them, though I admit at first I was like wtf. But really, would it be all good if it was orbs of purple energy instead?

[RD]

I want to say it is not just cosmetic, but every argument I come up with is wrong. "Mesmers aren't known for DD!" Energy Surge. "The skill is a ranged attack that drains energy!" Conjure Phantasm. *Grumble*

Phantasms aren't too fragile, though, right? They may disappear after combat, but they can function like disposable pets. Even clones can, though they're more of a "wizard" pet in that you wouldn't want them taking damage directly.

If a mob kills your clone/phantasm, are they affected by a shatter? If not, aren't these things kind of useless in PvP? For a clone, all it would take is an AOE attack to take them out.

[raspberry jam]

That's cosmetic though. I mean, we did end up loving those Jeebus beams, so why not lazers? I can see myself growing fond of them, though I admit at first I was like wtf. But really, would it be all good if it was orbs of purple energy instead?

RoJ looks cool, but that is because it is a beam of divine wrath or something, so it's supposed to look like that. Mesmers are supposed to be "wtf is happening oh wait I accidentally stabbed my own spleen" (aka Clumsiness) or similar. Sure, mesmers were not just hexes, but while other professions were centered around winning by doing their thing, mesmers were more like, winning by making the other guy lose (in various ways). It's hard to explain, but it excludes laser beams.

But sure, that was the GW1 mesmer. Not necessarily the GW2 one, which might be fun nevertheless.

[Alaris]

I want to say it is not just cosmetic, but every argument I come up with is wrong.

Ah well, you might learn to love GW2 mesmers when you get to play them. There are important differences though that might make it not so.

1) there is more opportunity for direct damage, which imo is good. I do like how you can choose a damage shatter or one that is more shutdown-like.
2) there is more delay, with less opportunity for twitch. This is bad for mesmers who liked reacting to foes.
3) there is somewhat less situational skills, i.e. stuff that only affects casters etc.

Phantasms aren't too fragile, though, right?

They are a bit more resilient. Think of them as a hexes with a longer duration and stronger effects, whereas clones are hexes that take effect on the next time you do something. GW1 hexes were difficult to remove, so are phantasms... but now anyone can remove any hex like anyone can rez.

Best example I can give to explain a clone: think of GW1 mesmer skills that affect the next tie target for attacks or casts a spell, where the attack or spell is interrupted (e.g. clumsiness, wandering eye, guilt, mistrust). A clone is a visual representation of those skills. They make you cast spells or attack, and you end up failing that attack or spell because you targeted the wrong foe. You only lose one attack, but it could have been a strong one. There's a bit of mind play here where players will try to ignore clones, and mesmers will try to get foes to attack their clones instead of themselves.

Or you can shatter your clones to damage or shutdown, but that would be removing hexes for a purpose.

If a mob kills your clone/phantasm, are they affected by a shatter?

You need to decide whether to shatter them, or let them play out their short lifespan.

mesmers were more like, winning by making the other guy lose (in various ways).

Yes yes, and admittedly that had to change. In part because even in GW1, people didn't like that (except those who did), and in part because the GW2 mesmer had to be more self-sufficient, and it's hard to get this to work if you're too focused on shutdown. Shutdown makes sense within a team, to enable others to do their thing without fear...

[RD]

As I see it, phantasm and clones are closer to Ritualist spirits now: Not super durable (some more than others), and they either continually apply a condition, continually damage the foe, or you can destroy them for a bonus or for extra damage. I liked playing Rit, but not as my Mesmer.

As far as twitch v. delay is concerned, that's not even my problem because I wasn't interrupt. I played proactively: Which target in this group gets hit with Empathy? Of these two groups of two mobs, which group should get Panic? Etc. Having to position your clone first makes that much, much more difficult.

You need to decide whether to shatter them, or let them play out their short lifespan.

This is not where I was going with my question. I was wondering for the sake of PvP. Against mobs, fine, they might let a clone beat on them. But against other players, if a Warrior has two Mesmers beating on him and he uses an AOE attack, there goes the clone and any chance of shattering it.

[Alaris]

As I see it, phantasm and clones are closer to Ritualist spirits now

Of course, I could be wrong, but I think you'll find that clones and phantasms are quite unlike spirits, and much more like hexes. Unfortunately, I don't think I can explain that better than I already have, we'll just have to wait for you to try it...

As far as twitch v. delay is concerned

I did see that, but I made my reply a bit more comprehensive for other readers.

I played proactively: Which target in this group gets hit with Empathy?

Well, the phantasm positions itself so you just need to be more proactive... but then again, the walk time could be compensated with faster cast time... it's all in the details at this point imo.

What might differ is that hexes, sorry, phantasms are more general-purpose than they were in GW1. Backfire would probably work well on a warrior for example, but otherwise it is essentially the same spell.

Of these two groups of two mobs, which group should get Panic? Etc. Having to position your clone first makes that much, much more difficult.

It makes it as easy, but takes a bit longer to get it done. It does take some of the immediacy away from the mesmer had.

if a Warrior has two Mesmers beating on him and he uses an AOE attack, there goes the clone and any chance of shattering it.

Actually, AoE's have been confirmed as a hard counter to mesmers' clones. But perhaps it's not so bad if your clones makes the warrior (etc) waste their AoE's. Alternatively, you might trigger the shatter before the warrior uses his AoE, and as a bonus he might trigger it anyway therefore entirely wasting it.

I can see myself sending clones and trying to shatter them right before my PvP foe activates his skill, such that he gets the shatter effect and also wastes a skill.

[RD]

But your clone has to run up to him from where you are (unless he's on top of you) and they're you're dipping into twitch gameplay, right? Because it comes down to hitting that shatter key as fast as you can.

[Alaris]

I like twitch sometimes, just not encyclopedia twitch though.

Hitting the shatter before my clone gets hit, that's fun. Knowing which 1/2s spell is worth interrupting and which I should refrain from interrupting, that's not fun.

[Giggles]

Just watched the TotalBiscuit Mesmer gameplay video and it's pretty much killed my love of Mesmer...

You don't have to use melee weapons. I thought it looked pretty fun going by what was shown in the video. Certainly different then the GW1 mesmer but, it looked like a lot of the intent was there. I'll need to try it to be certain but, it looked fun to me.