The 55-monk as the perfect example of Guild Wars design choices

[Alaris]

The thing is that even if you can still run with 15 minimum, you'd have to pay the price with additional skills which will make a lot of runs impossible, or much less effective. The 55 I did run, I needed all my 8 skills, and I had to be careful with energy etc. Same with the 600 I did run.

[MisterB]

Actually, I'm almost positive that your build could be adapted to run with more health, up to 155. Well, the build would have to change, but you could probably solo the same area. My point was that it could still be done solo unless PS had a higher flat damage minimum. 15 damage is not enough to stop a solo build using Protective Spirit.

[sorudo]

if they really want to stop 55 builds the only way to properly do this is by giving mobs armor ignoring attacks and enchant removers/DMG-ers.

[Alaris]

Sure, but it would probably reduce my damage output, or make it harder to run, or both. Whether it's possible is pretty useless info compared to whether it's efficient.

There's lots of ways ANet could have killed it or made it inefficient without altering PvP or intended PvE play. But they kept it and controlled it because people liked the build.

Not much point talking about what it'd take to nerf it, as I don't see it happening.

[MisterB]

I stopped running 55 in 2008. I found that 105-155 dual shields allowed larger groups, reduced skills, and even faster kills. Disadvantages are that it's more fragile, harder to use, and it consumes much more energy. 55s generally have too much energy management anyway.

You're quite correct that discussion of changes to PS is moot since it doesn't appear that they have any intentions of doing that.

[harniq]

Alaris did play PvP.

Still, you are right about that the right way would not be nerfing Protective Spirit. Instead, make runes of the same attribute not stack their health penalty (monks only have 4 attributes, so the 5th rune would not count) and remove the -50 from the cesta, or rather, make the -50 apply only if you do not wear two or more superior runes. This would place the health of the monk at 180 instead of 55, severely slowing down farming.

Again, you make 2 big mistakes that invalidate your double argument:
1/ solution 1, no stacking runes, solves nothing as the build would move towards elementalists, and to a lesser extent, warriors

2/ solution 2, removing -50 hp was not possible at the time as changing items was not technically possible. Remember we're talking prophecies here. They had to change a certain buffed shields with collectors as a serverwide upgrade was not possible.
2.1/ Other items in this story are -50% helmets, +5 swords and fiery flame spitters which, despite being impossible to create, left old overpowered items in game. Only in Factions were enough changes to the servers made to solve these things, long after 55 lost it's value.

[raspberry jam]

Again, you make 2 big mistakes that invalidate your double argument:
1/ solution 1, no stacking runes, solves nothing as the build would move towards elementalists, and to a lesser extent, warriors

2/ solution 2, removing -50 hp was not possible at the time as changing items was not technically possible. Remember we're talking prophecies here. They had to change a certain buffed shields with collectors as a serverwide upgrade was not possible.
2.1/ Other items in this story are -50% helmets, +5 swords and fiery flame spitters which, despite being impossible to create, left old overpowered items in game. Only in Factions were enough changes to the servers made to solve these things, long after 55 lost it's value.

1) You're right. Runes should only cause health penalty down to a maximum (minimum?) of 300 total.

2) Of course it is possible. It might have taken ANet programmers a month or whatever to do it and the servers might have had to taken a 2 day downtime, but it is definitely possible (though maybe not worth it).

[harniq]

1) You're right. Runes should only cause health penalty down to a maximum (minimum?) of 300 total.

2) Of course it is possible. It might have taken ANet programmers a month or whatever to do it and the servers might have had to taken a 2 day downtime, but it is definitely possible (though maybe not worth it).

1/ No need to tell me I'm right =) But again, your first argument is void because everyone in pvp would start stacking the maximum of sup runes, quickly devolving the game into powerplay.

2/ Not worth it is indeed the correct answer because 55 wasn't the only farm build and hardly the most efficient due to only 1 damage skill. Please note that easy is usually inverse proportional to good.

Again you forget that we are talking prophecies, the heyday of 55. At the time, splitting pvp and pve was not an option. A.net first came up with this well into nightfall.

[raspberry jam]

1/ No need to tell me I'm right =) But again, your first argument is void because everyone in pvp would start stacking the maximum of sup runes, quickly devolving the game into powerplay.

2/ Not worth it is indeed the correct answer because 55 wasn't the only farm build and hardly the most efficient due to only 1 damage skill. Please note that easy is usually inverse proportional to good.

Again you forget that we are talking prophecies, the heyday of 55. At the time, splitting pvp and pve was not an option. A.net first came up with this well into nightfall.

Me telling anyone that they are right is rare. Be happy. Anyway:

1) No, they would not. A sup rune in an attribute line that you probably don't even use anyway is hardly worth -75 health.

2) Doesn't matter much. The point is that ANet quite often say that this and that is impossible "due to programming" when it in fact is not.