Mass Effect 3 Controversy

[Alaris]

I'm not trying to deflect by asking another question, I am just pointing out that "unknowns" are just that. It actually sounds like the "indoctrination" explanation is a God of the Gaps.

As far as I know, the ending does not explain how does Hackett knows that you’re on the Citadel, how Anderson got to the room before you, or how did the ‘creator’ knew to appear as the child. "Indoctrination" does not explain any of this either afaik, but I will actually go watch the video now and I'll edit my post after as needed.

[RD]

Honestly, if you didn't see the bad ending coming in Lost, I saw that coming from a mile. The whole series was questions without answers, there was not enough there to make a good satisfying ending even if they wanted to.

ME TOO! I never watched the show, but I would hear people talking about it all the time. I would say "I promise you'll be disappointed with the finale" and they were all "No, the writers say everything has an explanation!!" Bulllll.

Stop deflecting by answering with a question.

Honestly. What are your thoughts on those bullet points I posted. I'm interested to hear yours or any pro-sh*tty ending/not indoctrination theorists theories or explanations on that. Convince me that it isn't indoctrination.

I don't think Alaris has played ME, and definitely not ME3, so I doubt he's avoiding your questions so much as just doesn't have the info necessary to guess.
As far as addressing your questions: Deus Ex Machina, ya dig?

Anyway, I don't think the indoctrination thing would be a bogus ending. I DO think it would be bogus if they tried to sell the "real ending" as DLC. I also think it's bogus that the relationships in ME 3 are potentially dreamed up.

[Mehtis]

-How does Hackett know that you’re on the Citadel? As far as everyone knows, you are dead, slain by Harbinger.

-How did Anderson get to the room before you, when there was only one visible entrance, and he was not ahead of you? He even admits to getting to the Citadel after you. Moreover, how did he know you were in the Citadel?

-How did the ‘creator’ know to appear as the child? Even if you’d told someone about the boy, you never told them what he looked like. How old he was. What he was wearing. How he sounded.

Is it easier to believe that Bioware just told the writing staff to 'wrap it up' and head home? Bioware can tell an effing story, so I'm inclined to believe the opposite.

Hackett knew that someone was there because the "wings" opened. How he knew it was Shepard, best guess or some future tracking-chip? Don't know.

Don't know how Anderson got there before you, but he knew to come there because he saw you go to the Conduit.

The boy thing, somehow the Catalyst read your mind.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards the Indoctrination theory too for many reasons mentioned everywhere. Including the tendrils on your screen when you talk to the Illusive Man. First I thought those were an attempt to indoctrinate but failed but it seems that they were the sings that you were indoctrinated.

[Alaris]

ME TOO! I never watched the show, but I would hear people talking about it all the time. I would say "I promise you'll be disappointed with the finale" and they were all "No, the writers say everything has an explanation!!" Bulllll.

I watched a few shows and gave up on it quickly. It was all mood, no substance. Mood was great though, but you can't properly end mood without substance.

I don't think Alaris has played ME, and definitely not ME3, so I doubt he's avoiding your questions so much as just doesn't have the info necessary to guess.

Correct, I did not play them. But I am not just lacking info to guess, I think the info needed might simply not exist.

If the fans are correct in thinking those are plotholes and shoddy writing, then there are no good explanations to be offered because they writers messed up, simple as that. I've been to tons of movies with plotholes, and I've seen plotholes in games as well. This would be Occam's explanation here. It doesn't make sense? Assume shoddy writing, hence the writers messed up trying to wrap up the series too quickly.

Watching the better part of that video doesn't change my opinion, though I admit I have not enough info to make an informed judgment, I did notice many parallels in the logic used to claim Indoctrination as that used by Conspiracy Theorists and Alien Abduction aficionados. That is, they don't have evidence for it, so much as they have lack of evidence against it, and a lot of unanswered questions to boot.

[CHIPS]

Personally, I'm not fond of the Mass Effect 3 ending (I make a long winded blog rant about it), but frankly, as a writer myself, I don't think the reader/player/viewer has any right whatsoever to DEMAND a creator change their creation to suit the whining of the viewer. You don't like it? Don't buy future products. Deal with it and quit your griping.

Bunch of whining little girls, the Mass Effect fandom. I hope Bioware doesn't change a thing, if for no reason but pure, vengeful spite. The complainers should NEVER get their way on this score.

That's where RPing comes in. Why need a ending when you can create your own ending? :D

As for ME3, hasn't played it yet. But I loved ME1, and found ME2 to be a semi-let down. It sounds like ME3 is a crushing let down.

So the ending involves explaining everything by "The aliens did it!" and "Its a dream!"??? Whoa....just whoa....

[chemiclord]

Yeah, sorry, I'll side with whining kids. I didn't play it. I know a lot of nerd rage is just ignorable, but this sounds like they actually messed up bad on that one and possibly because they were ending the franchise anyway so meh why spend money. By the time people get the 3rd ending, they'll already have made their income. That's just bad.

See, I really don't care if Bioware messed it up. I don't care how much fans think they dropped the ball or screwed the pooch, jumped the shark, or blew chunks. I don't care if you think they're incompetent, or just in it for the money.

IT'S NOT YOUR RIGHT TO DEMAND A CREATOR TO CHANGE THEIR CONTENT TO SUIT YOU. EVER.

If you don't like how Bioware ends their games, don't buy their stuff anymore. I hope the whiners get nothing. Bunch of entitled little jackasses. Get nothing and like it.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

IT'S NOT YOUR RIGHT TO DEMAND A CREATOR TO CHANGE THEIR CONTENT TO SUIT YOU. EVER.
.

Absolutely wrong. We are the target audience, so we can be the critics of what they give us. Their product is meant to appease us. We have every right to tell them that they messed up the ending, and plead to them to fix it. This isn't a case of "we don't like how it ended", this is a case of "it is broken, fix it". And if Bioware responds to their fans and changes the ending, good for them. It is a badly written ending that doesn't fit with the rest of the series, and they can only improve it. Let them add a boss battle for starters, and let our decissions make an impact on the story out come. After all, that is what they promised!

We, the consumers, didn't get the experience that they advertised. We have every right to complain. In fact, we SHOULD complain.

BTW, another good argument against the indoctrination theory:

Spoiler

Right before the ending there is a mission where Shepard and crew encounter a VI on Thessia that automatically detects indoctrinated persons. It doesn't detect Shepard. End of story. Yeah, it was a nice try. But it doesn't hold up.

It is quite possible that Shepard starts falling slightly under the influence of the Reapers during the final scene where he meets the Illusive Man. But there is no good reason to assume that he was indoctrinated before. Yes, Shepard does have visions of a young boy. This does not make him indoctrinated, Shepard is clearly suffering from post traumatic stress, caused by failing to stop the invasion of earth. This is again hinted at after failing on Thessia. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one.

This leads to various scenes where Shepard is clearly shown to be tired, and it also results in nightmares. Shepard is shown to be not as tough as he shows himself on the outside. And his crew realises this.

You don't need indoctrination to explain these scenes.

[Alaris]

Why the hate, chemiclord?

As a customer, you can ask whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're going to get it.

And if you are promised something and the devs don't deliver on their promise (without due warning where you could have voted with your dollar) then you have the right to complain. It doesn't mean you can do anything legally about it other than complain... and not buy their next products.

As a dev, you can go ahead and produce games that doesn't meet the demand, and you can even make promises you have no intention on delivering on. And then you can wonder why your customers are leaving you. Or you can address the demand and develop a loyal fanbase. Your choice.

[MixedVariety]

You have the right to ask. You have the right to request. You have the right to complain. You do not have the right to demand anything; it's impolite and ...

oh, sorry. I've been a Dad for too long.

[chemiclord]

Absolutely wrong. We are the target audience, so we can be the critics of what they give us. Their product is meant to appease us. We have every right to tell them that they messed up the ending, and plead to them to fix it. This isn't a case of "we don't like how it ended", this is a case of "it is broken, fix it". And if Bioware responds to their fans and changes the ending, good for them.

I'm the one that spent hours creating this thing you're supposed to be enjoying. Not you.

I'm the one that was up all night putting together the story boards, character sketches, scenes, dialogue, and plot events. Not you.

I'M the one who gets to decide how and when and where it ends. Not YOU.

You don't like how I end it, that's fine. You don't like how I wrote something? That's fine too. I could have long chats for hours about what you think I did wrong, what I could have done better.

You do not DEMAND I change something, like the Mass Effect whiners are. That will earn you a cordial middle finger and a "F*** off."

Same deal with Bioware. It's THEIR story. Not YOURS. They get to choose how it ends, and if you don't like it, that's too bad. Deal. Find something else you do enjoy rather than gripe and complain and waste the time of government agencies because you were never taught how to deal with disappointment.