So, want to see what's in the cash shop?

[djacob]

I guess the government should start selling heroin since we'll never get rid of drug dealers anyway.

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Ok, I am calm. Now please explain why ANet would remove the foundations of their intended business model.

So basically you're now changing your story from "they'll remove it from the release version" to "it's their game, they can do what they want"? You are making absolutely zero sense, changing your arguments to whatever seems to fit like that. You're doing more harm than good.

I never said they would remove gems, I said that this is a beta and is not official information so not all items are bound to be as they are now. I also said we don't have all the information as there could easily be items that are comparable to these in higher levels. As far as the gems though, I think you're right in that they won't remove them, and I doubt they'd have them as random drops. So I said sorry, because I was sorry that the game wasn't going the way you wanted... though in my haste I guess I did so in a rude manner. Guess my emotions caused by your earlier posts got to me.

Below spoiler for if you're asking why they changed from their previous "we don't allow any advantages from our cash shop" model.

Spoiler

Things change when you hire more people. I'm not supporting all the changes. I also hope some of the items in the shop are updated on release and that they explain the items sometime next week. While stating any changes they made after you know, they were actually tested. Of course, I'm not so sure this is a change from their previous model as they had plenty of items that were quite convenient.

They're hoping for more money and I don't entirely blame them, at the same time they still don't feel like people should feel it's required for them to spend money to be competitive so they tried taking a system from other games (such as EVE). I think they want to use this system to help those who can't spend the money to also get the cash shop items, albeit at a much slower pace. Are they right in making the compromise that convenience items are on the table since they aren't technically pay to win? Not if they do things like making the run from dungeons to your bank twice as long so you'll want the golem banker. However, I'm not expecting this to be the case, I'll judge when they announce the items.

This next one is if you're asking why they would change from their current model.

Spoiler

I don't think they'd scrap the model altogether, but I think they will keep a close eye on certain items and even remove them if they prove to be more hassle than they're worth, or if people feel they break the game for those who don't get said items. If rez orbs and repair kits cause a big issue with balance in dungeons they very well might get removed. If the megaphone causes lots of /reports, it might get removed as well, though I actually doubt that.

Also, changing items wouldn't really be scrapping anything because they aren't in the game yet. Ie. they're unofficial.

If they don't announce all the items and explain what's going on before April 10th however, I will also be angry with them since I agree with you on at least one point. People should have the ability to know what they are buying, before doing so.

[Skyy High]

Just to get my 2 cents in:

The res orb might be problematic, but I frankly can't see that as being terribly useful, considering how everyone can res. It doesn't prevent armor damage either, so it's not like you can use it indefinitely. Actually, the biggest problem I have is the instant repair canister. Armor damage is basically DP in this game, so an armor repair canister is basically like a Powerstone in GW1: it removes all your DP instantly. This would allow a dungeon group to wipe as many times as they want without getting "DP-ed out" (read: all their armor broken). On the other hand, the gold cost of the thing might be high enough that it's not worth it. It depends how much gold 70 gems fetch on the market, and how rewarding the dungeon is.

So....we have:
* Crafting, XP, and Magic Find boosts. I utterly do not care about these. Crafting boost only gives XP, not better items. XP boost is pointless since the game is not supposed to be a rush to max level (and grinding mobs doesn't sound like a good way to level anyway). Magic Find is basically another way to gamble your gold/money to find better loot.

* Karma boost. Small enough that it probably won't make a difference, but still, if it went away I would be happy.

* Style stuff. All of this is fine and expected.

* Bank portal - meh, alright. Convenience, like the bank golem.

* Instant repair cannister / res orb. Talked about these above. If repair canister couldn't be used in a dungeon, that'd be great.

* Perfect salvage kit. Almost certainly available for gold from a vendor somewhere.

* Loot bag. Depends what's in it. Random gambling is fine if it's mostly cosmetic rewards.

* Mystic Key. Lifted straight from TF2. Again, largely depends what's in the chests, but putting them in the world is devious.

* Dye box. Expected. Like the "trading card pack" feel of it.

* Magic plant food. Lol wtf? Ah well, dyes are fine, not worried about this, just curious how the system works.

* Megaphone. On paper, it sounds ok, but I'm worried by all the people saying how annoying it is in other games.

* Account. Completely expected, everything's fine here.

* Minis. Also expected. Love the "trading pack" idea again.

So...yeah. Nothing to complain about here, right guys? Right?

[Alaris]

Some of it is also pretty hard to gage properly before trying it yourself. The inventory bags and golems for example might feel more or less necessary depending on factors like how often items drop, and how easy it is to go to town to sell stuff and get back into action.

10% might feel negligible, but if it's on something like Kurzick (which took forever) vs GW1 XP (which became useless pretty quick) then it makes a big difference. 10% of XP is roughly 10 hours off of survivor 3 playing normally which is meh because survivor played normally gets you other goals accomplished too. It's roughly 30 hours of Kurzick farming which is a bigger deal.

[Skyy High]

10% might feel negligible, but if it's on something like Kurzick (which took forever) vs GW1 XP (which became useless pretty quick) then it makes a big difference. 10% of XP is roughly 10 hours off of survivor 3 playing normally which is meh because survivor played normally gets you other goals accomplished too. It's roughly 30 hours of Kurzick farming which is a bigger deal.

Thing is, people grind Kurzick because it's a goal. Same for legendary survivor: either way, the goal is to get to the end (or, in the case of Kurzick, to get as far as you can to improve your linked skills). I don't consider racing to 80 to be a "goal", because there's fun stuff to do at every step along the way. If you go too fast and miss content, you're probably going to end up playing down-leveled anyway just to see everything. So, I kinda view XP boosters as just ways for ANet to make a buck off of players who just don't understand that they'll get to lvl80, they don't need to race there.

Plus, it's only based on crafting XP and mob XP. That's, from what we've seen, a tiny amount of the XP you actually gain. Most XP seems to come from DEs, daily achievements, and story quests.

[Alaris]

Agreed on the XP boost not being an issue here for many of the reasons you stated. Although one valid reason to race to the end is economic: the first ones to get endgame skins and sell them will make a lot more money from those sales than the subsequent ones. A scrub like me who has a life will get to endgame significantly later than 24/7 players, especially paying ones, and thus the rich/poor divide will already be quite large.

20% Karma boost is still upsetting.

[Jez]

Going by some reactions, my disdain for the megaphone due to my experiences with the megaphone in maple story and the rez orb causing conflict one way or the other are pretty tame.
The cash shop items are in my opinion far from pay to win. The boosts Just get you somewhere quicker... if they have the skill to use them. Someone with a boost to exp isn't going to gain much if they fail. Storage may be an issue, depends on what you can get without paying extra gold. I'm not mad at it because with enough work, I can earn the gold to buy it through gems. I can guarantee that without knowing what items have in game gold variants, the ire is probably unwarranted.

Obligatory I thought Shawn was a stoner first comment.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Just to add to the controversy... most of the cash shop items found in GW2 have their GW1 equivalent

XP boosts --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scroll - up to 3x the XP
Orb of ressurection --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scroll_of_Resurrection
Magic find boost & loot bag & mystic key --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lockpick
12 slot bag --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Equipment_Pack
Perfect salvage kit --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Perfect_Salvage_Kit
Instant repair canister --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Death_Penalty (see removal section)

GW1 even has pay(gold)-to-win --- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Conset

Those are all items you can buy in-game, and yes people complain about consets but the rest seems ok with the population. The only real difference here is that you can buy them with RL cash, which is moot because even if they were sold for gold, you could get gold with RL cash.

It doesn't mean I have to like it, but I rarely ever used consets and never felt like I needed them.

The problem is in GW1 it's a gold sink, in GW2 these items are for cash. I will never agree to paying $2 a key to unlock an in-game drop, and I'm completely against lotto boxes. The rnd dye packs are not a trading card system, there are no bottles, it unlocks the dye in your pallette. If there's a way to trade duplicate dyes with others for the dyes you DON'T have then I'll be ok with that, but from what they've talked about so far, that's not how the new dye system works.

[RD]

The problem is in GW1 it's a gold sink, in GW2 these items are for cash. I will never agree to paying $2 a key to unlock an in-game drop, and I'm completely against lotto boxes. The rnd dye packs are not a trading card system, there are no bottles, it unlocks the dye in your pallette. If there's a way to trade duplicate dyes with others for the dyes you DON'T have then I'll be ok with that, but from what they've talked about so far, that's not how the new dye system works.

They're also gold sinks in GW 2.

[sorudo]

They're also gold sinks in GW 2.

in euro/dollar/whatever yes, you can change gold to gems but i guess the exchange currency will be a huge amount of gold for just one gem and i just can't see that as a reliable alternative.
IMO they should've done it the LOTRO way, you complete a relative simple deed and you get gems for it.
removes the stress by allot and gives the cash shop a true balance between paying gems with real money and getting the gems trough gameplay, just a gold-gems exchange asks for allot of problems.

[Skyy High]

I will never agree to paying $2 a key to unlock an in-game drop, and I'm completely against lotto boxes.

So sell them. There was a picture circulating that confirmed that you can put those chests on the auction house.

The rnd dye packs are not a trading card system, there are no bottles, it unlocks the dye in your pallette. If there's a way to trade duplicate dyes with others for the dyes you DON'T have then I'll be ok with that, but from what they've talked about so far, that's not how the new dye system works.

The dye blog post is very old, and while it does say that dyes are unlocked for your account, it doesn't say how. I fully expect vials of dye to be tradeable, and then when you "use" one, it consumes the vial and unlocks that dye for your account (if you don't already have it). They're not going to charge us for useless vials that we can't use and can't trade, I think that's pretty much common sense.