Too much damage

[Fluffball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IM2r...cks8ka3XOzs%3D

There are several times when the warrior or other party members go from full health (over 5,000) to dead in a single attack. In one case the entire party dies from an AoE. Why is that fun, again? Didn't they learn the lesson of ele bosses in GW1?

[Nemeon Lion]

You're forgetting you can dodge.

You also forgot that anyone can rezz.

It's not the same as GW1.

[Jez]

(Insert damage is too damn high meme)
It is quite different from guild wars 1.

Firstly, they are in the hard mode of a dungeon. It's meant to be taxing. If you are downed, anyone can bring you back up. Some classes can even pick themselves back up (or at least the ranger can). And like previously mentioned, if you die, anyone can rez as well.

Most of the time when the warrior dropped health in that fight, it was because he walked into a whirlwind. Melee generally always have issues with surviving fights.

And lastly, of course, it's still beta, the damage isn't final.

[djacob]

You're forgetting you can dodge.

You also forgot that anyone can rezz.

It's not the same as GW1.

Exactly, dodge will be an important aspect of the game, and you'll need to learn to use it well if you want to do explorable dungeons which afaik are what anet plans on being the most difficult content in the game. There will be similar loot accessible through other means such as crafting for those who don't want to spend the time or simply aren't good enough.

The issue in gw1 was that there were limited ways to stay alive when the damage got increased, and almost all those ways were based on what skills you took, not on your actual ability to use said skills, although I'm not saying skill didn't play into anything. But taking a derv into doa when it was first released was a bad idea. Especially in gloom, as scythes were gimped with something like 50% attack success rate, and all the enemy groups had heavy enchant removal.

In gw2, there will always be a way to change your playstyle to fit the scenario. There are no melee only classes, so you'll need to learn to use ranged weapons and how to get out of/stay away from fights when the monsters do a lot of pbaoe. It could be worse, in other games there are some dungeons with similar pbaoe heavy damage. However, there are classes that are strictly melee dps. They're basically excluded from such dungeons. At the very best, teams will allow one mdps in such dungeons.

The nicest thing about gw2 is that they telegraph their attacks and it's easy to understand what's going on. No learning the cycle of the boss, where everything happens in a specific order and no explanation (other than on a wiki) is given on what any of it means. I hope fights like this never happen:

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wik...per_of_Secrets

There is no in game indicator of what the orbs do, and they move much faster than the player. Combined with the fact that once a tank picks up the purple orb he aggroes the boss... while she is doing 7500 dmg cleaves that are about as wide as the room (dps and healers normally have 5000-7000 hp) and most tanks just decide to try and tank both the hits with their 10,500 hp, hoping that the healers can restore 4500+ hp in about 3-5 seconds and that they can block all the other attacks during that time period. Although, from what I read, destruction players (but not order) could turn the 7500 damage into 1 dmg. There were no ways to mitigate or block the damage for order. At least they finally got rid of the bug where the cleaves were doing 10,000 damage.

[Erring Ryft]

nthing the "It's not the same" thing. As we all keep playing and getting better, I imagine we'll get better at preemptively dodging the big attacks and moving out of the AoE.

Not too many folks managed pre-protting to avoid dying on those ele bosses the first time they did it (at least before the advent of spamming SY! on an imbagon to a stupid degree). This'll be the same thing, with explorable mode having a steep learning curve. But it looks like it's going to be damn fun to win.

[Fluffball]

I think it would be more reasonable to have half your health taken away for big hits. Instantly killing you is dumb because there is zero room for error, you must constantly be perfect.

[Erring Ryft]

Possibly, but for the hardest mode out there, on a boss, I WANT a terrible misstep like balling up for AoE to equal instant death. Having one or two people one-shotted sucks, but it forces you to work as a team to get everyone back in the fight. Far too many people in GW keep spamming their damage skills at the boss when the party would be better served by a rez. If they can't reasonably expect to win by doing so, they might be forced to get better.


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[Zayren]

Saying "just because anyone can revive" does NOT make instant kills somehow okay.

Running in and dying and respawning and running in and dying and respawning and running in and dying isn't very fun

[Alaris]

Afaik the place is meant for level 35, so at 30 you take way more damage than you normally should. I assume too that at 40 you might be able to survive even better.

[Erring Ryft]

I think they mentioned that you'd scale down to the level of the dungeon, so out-leveling the difficulty shouldn't be an option. Regardless, making the mistake of all of you balling up should get you killed on the hardest difficulty setting.

It reminds me of when they ramped up the UW quests and everyone complained that quests like SoG and 4H had too many enemies to deal with in HM, so they drastically reduced the number of spawns instead of forcing people to adapt (even though many already had). Some things should be hard. If you have to dodge really well to avoid being one-shotted by that boss, then you should learn to dodge really well. If you can't, your team needs to learn how to recover quickly. If it's not your idea of fun, there are other ways to experience the content that aren't as difficult. I don't think everything needs to be toned down just so the entire population can win without learning.


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