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  1. #21
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    My point isn't so much that you should vote because one vote makes a difference (though it absolutely can), but because the right to vote is important. And the more people who adopt the attitude of "My vote doesn't count, so I don't do it," the more important your vote becomes.

    Simply because women and black people could not vote in this country, I think it is important for everyone to vote. People fought a long time for the right, so I find it a little disrespectful to take it for granted.

  2. #22
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    Uh, guys? In a democratic election, if the majority of people live in the city, then the city is probably going to decide the election. Stop considering "the cities" to consist of one faceless mob of people intent on making your vote not count; they have just as much of a say as you do, no more nor less. The only difference is that there are more of them.

  3. #23
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    the problem is the global finance tho, when the rich get richer and the poor get more poor then it's all about how much is of each.
    in Holland sadly the rich ppl are in the majority, this makes the country unbalanced and more ppl gain problems.
    they take a loan they can't pay back, they don't py taxes because they just don't have the money but the rich ppl don't care.
    you could say "vote to make your voice heard" but when it's muted by a large group only out to make money out of you then all you can do is sit there helplessly, it doesn't matter how loud you scream they ether ignore you or remove you from the area.

    the problem currently is the attitude ppl have to each other, a man who is working his butt of just to get enough money should not be seen as just another guy.
    a man who is working on a high-grade payroll should not be seen as the most important person, most of the time ppl like that are ether from politics or close to it.

    IMO the way ppl should be threaded would be in a balanced and stable way, no one should be more or less important, some are even seen less important while they are the kind who are cleaning up others mess.


    in Holland we currently have problems with both social work spaces and teachers, the social workers should according to them work in a regular working space and teachers should be payed less.
    it has everything to do with the crisis but there is a pattern emerging, the moment you look at high payrolls nothing changes at all.

    now teachers are simply needed and i am sure there are teachers here who would say the same thing, apparently that's not an issue.
    they get payed less but for the same work, if that would happen to me i would be really pissed.

    the social working spaces are reduced and they are discussing if they should even exist, if they are removed it would mean that millions of ppl are work-less or are put in a place they really can't work.
    just imagine working somewhere you really don't enjoy but you're forced since no other place accepts you, or you finally found a place you like but you just can't get to the point where your boss likes you as an employee.
    i can't take stress so a stressful environment would be bad, according to politics that's just not an issue and i should work somewhere els.
    but now we barely have any work available, would you as a boss accept an employee who is less capable then the next guy?
    so the biggest problem isn't just the existence of social working spaces, it's also the availability of work outside of it.
    you will have way to many ppl at home without work and all the community can say is "tough luck", that's how Holland uses ppl.

    so yes, i never even liked the political system in the first place, at first it was a place for the people, now it's a place where the rich ppl decide our fate.
    it's alive but cannot be living, it's dead but lives a mortal life.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyy High View Post
    Uh, guys? In a democratic election, if the majority of people live in the city, then the city is probably going to decide the election. Stop considering "the cities" to consist of one faceless mob of people intent on making your vote not count; they have just as much of a say as you do, no more nor less. The only difference is that there are more of them.
    It's not that I don't get that there are a lot of people in Philly and Pittsburg. It's that they're a pretty small geographical part of a relatively large state, and that their popular opinion is often not representative of everywhere else you go in the state. So, you get local and regional politics doing one thing, and then the state going where the cities want to go. Harrisburg is in the middle of the state and a bit more representative. Yeah, it makes sense when the Philly metro area is 5+ million of the state's 12.5-ish mil, and this is an issue that exists in a lot of states, but still. I can understand why bear feels like that. It used to bug me a little, but it's not like people in other parts of NY wouldn't be in the same spot.

    Democrats is the worst.
    Spoiler

  5. #25
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    As I understand it, Zalis, it's a rural vs urban problem where urban areas tend to win, and thus rural interests tend to be under-represented.

    The problem isn't just about majority rules, it's also about properly understanding that cities do depend on a lot of stuff rural areas provide, but are often too ignorant to really understand the issues faced in those areas.

    Giving more weights to rural votes would therefore make sense to restore some balance here... but good luck making the majority go with that.

    It's hard enough to get people to accept that maybe we should listen more to our educated minority rather than our religious majority, at least when it relates to science!!
    Last edited by Alaris; 17-04-2012 at 20:01.
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  6. #26
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    No way I'd agree to rural votes counting more and not just because I think they would differ from my personal viewpoint. I totally understand where you're coming from with that, but you just can't do it. You can't say one groups' votes is more valuable than another groups'; which is what that system says. I know it's intended to make all votes equal, but that's not how it works. I'm still registered at my dad's house (need to switch that before November...); in your system, when I vote, my vote would be more powerful, even though I am an urban dweller. Same goes for every absentee voter.

    It's definitely an issue, though, especially with the electoral college system.

  7. #27
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    I don't know if these kinds of polorizing statements are really very constructing but....

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ef=mostpopular

    here's a fun follow the money web page

    http://sopatrack.com/

  8. #28
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    My friend sent me that article last week. It sort of makes sense: I didn't interpret it as "Duhh conservatives are dumb duhhh," but as conservative thinking is more of a default setting. Which sort of makes sense because, when you think about it, conservatives tend to be about keeping things the same.

    That SOPA Track thing is crazy!! All of the top 10 voters with money are Republican! Disgusting that the BEST voter AGAINST money still votes with money 46% of the time. And the best state is 54%. Barf! Hence the title of the thread lol Party lines aside, they're all crooks. I can't believe this ish is legal.

  9. #29
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    Voting for or against money would go around 50% by chance, which is what you'd expect if people didn't take money into account, i.e., are not corrupt. But that means that there are still no people that expressively try to undo the vote-for-money trend.

    As for the votes for rural etc proposition above, yeah it has problems but those problems average out over large populations. My biggest issue though would be that rural votes would count for more on issues where they really shouldn't get their votes counting for more, e.g. gaay marriage human rights and stuff like that. They should have more weight in deciding how rural areas are handled, and that's it. Currently, the vote system doesn't split by issues, just by candidate.
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  10. #30
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    So, then it's basically: "Rural areas should totally have their say, and we should consider helping their voice to be heard... except when we disagree with them."

    ?

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