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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by RDarken View Post
    I don't think GW 1 Mesmer would even work. Interrupts maybe, but hexes and stuff wouldn't. Normal mobs die way too fast to even bother with DoTs; that's probably why stuff like Bleeding has such a short duration. It would be fine in PvP or against boss mobs, but in everyday PvE, Mesmers would end up contributing so little.
    Keep in mind the mobs you say die too quickly are in the tutorial area.

  2. #52
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    When I think what'd they have to do to the GW1 mesmer to make it work in GW2, I end up making a lot of the same decisions as the ANet team did. I would have kept casting bars and pure interrupts (not for me, but for those who enjoy that) but otherwise it would have been very similar. Maybe a bit less random, but I think there is a balance reason for that.

    Of course, I lack the genius to make hexes have a physical appearance.
    Last edited by Alaris; 03-05-2012 at 16:17.
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  3. #53
    I almost exclusively played a mesmer during this BWE as well although the time I had for the BWE was rather limited.

    As far as I see, the Mesmer is one of the hardest professions to master. Along with the Engineer, the complexity of this class is quite high.

    The original point of the thread starter is well taken: The class has changed a lot. Mechanics considered to be key mechanics are either gone now or significantly changed. This mostly includes things like filling the role of an exclusive interrupter.

    What needs to be kept in mind is that these changes were quite deliberate. As pointed out earlier, pure interruption roles were significantly weakened because this play style can be quite reactionary. Arenanet wanted to make the game play more active and strategic.

    I have been watching the official forums a bit and notice quite a vocal group that wants to immediately change basic mechanisms of the mesmer. I sense a similar sentiment here.

    In general, I am hesitant to suggest major changes on design principles of the class that were quite deliberate without extensively testing these features. By extensive, I don't mean just 60 hours or so for the previous BWE. I mean a couple of weeks worth. I am comfortable to guestimate that the majority of people got far less than 60 hours of experience on the mesmer. When the profession is so complex, prematurely demanding "improvements" by fundamentally changing basic mechanics of the profession may lead to a "dumbing" down of the profession. I remember from the early days of GW1, many demands were also made for that Mesmer back then. If Arenanet had listened to all those suggestions early on, the Mesmer would not have been the profession it is known for now.

    That said there are some real issues with this profession that I personally think need to be addressed. These include:

    - Illusion AI: It appears that the AI sometimes gets stuck. Illusions with some frequency get stuck, don't move or appear with significant delay. On the latter point, I wonder if this has to do with overall lag on the server and how this could be addressed. Problems with the Illusion AIs seems to be a subset of problems with Pet AI in general. I think Anet is aware and working on it. But since this is beta, the player community should point out issues like this.
    - All shatter skills appear the same at this point. Because things other than damage (like confusion and daze) are certainly very subtle (and possibly not strong enough), the shatter skills that don't deal immediate damage may feel very invisible or ineffective compared to Mind Wrack. I am sure that some of the shatter skills need tuning, and definitely need unique animations.

    I wonder if the points I mention above are also points the community thinks need tuning. I wonder whether if the above issues were addressed, some of the concerns about the Mesmer would be addressed.
    Last edited by Thalanor Thornhale; 03-05-2012 at 16:23.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalanor Thornhale View Post
    I have been watching the official forums a bit and notice quite a vocal group that wants to immediately change basic mechanisms of the mesmer. I sense a similar sentiment here.
    Nah, I think it just seems like that because Alaris refused to admit that Mesmers are drastically different in GW 2, so we had to beat it into him :)

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalanor Thornhale View Post
    Mechanics considered to be key mechanics are either gone now or significantly changed. (...) What needs to be kept in mind is that these changes were quite deliberate. (...) All shatter skills appear the same at this point.
    1) About mechanics being gone, see below.
    2) Yes, thank you!
    3) Shatters 1 & (2-3) & 4 seem very different to me in function, if not in visuals. The issue I have is that 2 & 3 seem to overlap more, I'd actually have to wiki to know how they differ. They're shutdown both of them...

    After wiki'ing: 1 is straight AoE damage, 2 is AoE punishment, 3 is interrupt & shutdown, 4 is self-protection

    Quote Originally Posted by RDarken View Post
    Nah, I think it just seems like that because Alaris refused to admit that Mesmers are drastically different in GW 2, so we had to beat it into him :)
    I may be in a downed mode, but I am not dead ;)

    But seriously, I don't deny the changes, what I do argue against is when people say dumb stuff like you can't interrupt or hexes and degen are gone, which is patently not true: (1) there are many ways you can interrupt, (2) clones and phantasms are visual hexes, and some conditions do what hexes used to do, and (3) I've yet to hear how degen =/= clones and phantasms doing regular damage over time.

    They did however change the emphasis on roles and specializations, much like they reworked healers, and that I have been pretty good at acknowledging when people made those comments, no?
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  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RDarken View Post
    Nah, I think it just seems like that because Alaris refused to admit that Mesmers are drastically different in GW 2, so we had to beat it into him :)
    What on earth gave you the impression they actually paid the blindest bit of attention?

    After all, they may not play Mesmer in GW1, and confessed to playing thief in GW2, but they're still correcting us. *sigh*

    My opinion of the of the Minstrel, having played it exclusively in GW2 and being a Mesmer in GW1, remains in accord with RDarken, Teina and Quintus.

    A donkey is not a thoroughbred stallion. Alaris can champion being a donkey all they like. It may have 4 legs, it might be fitted with horse shoes, you may even be able to point at it and say 'hey, it even has a prettier pattern', and from a distance it may appear similar, but those with any equine experience will know the difference.
    Last edited by teina; 03-05-2012 at 19:20. Reason: removed baiting

  7. #57
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    I think a different perspective is just what the forum needs to boost analysis and discussion. I think many of us have a better understanding of how GW1 mesmer and GW2 mesmer are alike and differ, me included, as a consequence of this. As long as said different perspective tries to be respectful and factual when possible, I don't see a problem. Imagine the scenario reversed, that you were alone defending your point, would you give up on your convictions just because you're outnumbered?

    I can be persistent and arrogant at times, but I try to be polite and respectful. I don't always succeed, but hey, we're all humans here.

    I am not plural, despite my greatness. Also, I am more zebra than donkey. ;)
    Last edited by teina; 03-05-2012 at 19:21. Reason: removed baiting
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  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    3) Shatters 1 & (2-3) & 4 seem very different to me in function, if not in visuals.
    That's what I mean. The visuals are the same or very similar for 3/4 shatter skills. It would help if the appearance or visuals were more distinct for each shatter.

  9. #59
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    Do other people need to know what shatter you used? I mean, when playing mesmer I would know which shatter I used so having different visuals doesn't seem important to me.
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  10. #60
    I imagine that it may help other players tell what happened. Remember that GW2 is all about projecting what happened into the world and not into the UI.

    More so it will give beginning Mesmer players a clue that these skills are different. Reason: I have clones. I use Mind Wrack to shatter them. I see damage. If I used another shatter skill, the animation looks the same, the tiny confusion button is not readily apparent if you don't know what you are looking for. You don't feel much damage occuring. It looks like nothing is really happening compared to mind wreck. So in other words, it may help make the profession with the shatter skills a bit more understandable and approachable while not completely ripping out the guts of the profession as designed. Every other skill is projected differently. Why not also the shatter skills?

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