The Official Compilation of BWE Grievances.

[Shrandar]

Well, I think the devs would disagree with you.

I've seen a lot of claims that this or that feature is archaic, but the thing is that ANet has been pretty systematic about rethinking every feature and changing it if they thought they could improve it. I mean, they even improved bags! Bags! I didn't even know you could improve that!!

Whether you consider armor repair as good or bad, I doubt it's there because the devs forgot to think about it. It's there because the devs think it's good for the game for some reason, and I assume that they know what their design philosophy is.

You can still disagree, of course, I am not 100% happy with all of ANet's decisions. Feel free to voice your discontent with given features, and hopefully they'll improve those features that are least popular, or stick with it if they have solid reason to do so.

Well ok ill not use the word archaic (I just like the word ;)). What I mean is that with dying being a feature (downed state), the ability to ress for everyone, and the ability to run back into a fight in dungeons (is that still in?) it seems to me that dying is part of the intended gameplay not something to be avoided at all cost. Besides I was watching the latest Gamebreaker Guilcast and Gary told about how he repeatedly got defeated by a boss which got him so determined to beat that boss that he finally learned to dodge properly. He learned and had fun because he wanted to play better, not because he walked away from the fight because his armor got damaged.


WoW fx works differently, dying is mostly end of story there (certainly if you are a healer or tank) teaching people to avoid dying by punishing them if they do, makes more sense within that design. So yes archaic is the wrong word, I can see armor repairs working within other games, just not so much in this one but ofcourse this is based on one weekend in the game.

[Alaris]

I didn't actually try it, but apparently you can get bags that attract certain item types like crafting stuff, or that are invisible to vendors... which automatically helps with inventory management.

I agree that I would prefer a game without armor repairs, but as implemented by ANet (1) I see the logic, and (2) it's not a big deal. But yeah, wanting to not be a terrible players is motivation enough for me to play better. Shawn has argued though that other players often need additional motivation, which is where death penalty and armor repair comes in.

/undecided

[Cyberman]

The armor repair is the attrition mechanic needed so scrubs don't just keep running back again and again and slowly whittling down a boss until it dies. It's supposed to make you say 'okay this isn't working, what can i do to not fail'

Much as I hate to use SWTOR as a reference - and I hate this mechanic there as well - they achieved this by instantly recharging the boss if you die (and are the only attacker).

I'd prefer that to armor repair. (Which SWTOR has as well :/)

Right, and dying isn't a signal enough that maybe you're not doing something right?

No, they must FORCE you to play the game the RIGHT way. Hence also the weapon-fixed skills...

[Alaris]

No, they must FORCE you to play the game the RIGHT way. Hence also the weapon-fixed skills...

I like that system, it forces you to have a more balanced build (and it's up to you to use it well or fail at it).

Before, people would specialize too much which meant trinity... I heal, you do damage... Even if it's not that viable, you'd end up with people trying to force you to run these highly specialized builds.

But then I've always been a fan of hybrids.

[Zayren]

I didn't actually try it, but apparently you can get bags that attract certain item types like crafting stuff, or that are invisible to vendors... which automatically helps with inventory management.

right

a thing that has been in WoW since launch

but when it's in GW2 it's ~*~INNOVATION~*~

WoW fx works differently, dying is mostly end of story there (certainly if you are a healer or tank) teaching people to avoid dying by punishing them if they do, makes more sense within that design. So yes archaic is the wrong word, I can see armor repairs working within other games, just not so much in this one but ofcourse this is based on one weekend in the game.

even in WoW, dying for the Xth time on Heroic Yor'sahj is the motivation to learn the fight and do better

armor repair is just an additional layer of pointless tedium, but at least in WoW someone can just throw down a repair bot so we don't need to waste 5 extra minutes going back to town to repair when we could be, you know, actually playing the game

seriously, just dying is disheartening enough without a dumb penalty on top of it

in conclusion: yeah armor repair definitely is archaic

[RD]

Zayren, I don't really disagree with you, but I think you're drastically over-estimating the general population. For some of us, death might be punishment enough, but plenty of people don't feel that way without a penalty. After all, that's the whole concept of zerging mobs in the first place. It's how they beat The Sleeper in EQ, who was supposed to be unkillable.

[Cyberman]

For some of us, death might be punishment enough, but plenty of people don't feel that way without a penalty.

Why is that a problem for the rest of the players?
It's bad enough when players are always going "You must play the game THIS way!!1111" - why must the devs join in too?

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

Fact-checking your statements here...

1) there's an icon that appears next to your health globe saying you have armor damage, and if you hover it shows you which pieces
2) you can avoid damage entirely by not dying
3) the enjoyment that players feel as a result of this (if any) is when they avoid the punishment (the rather small punishment in time and gold) rather than the punishment itself

In other words:
1) the clock is facing you, not away
2) it's a counter, not a clock
3) the punishment is avoidable, and that's where the fun is meant to be

I disagree. During the beta I was still surprised by the armor suddenly breaking. It might happen while you are exploring a tunnel (and fighting stuff) or fighting a boss. Dying is a natural part of the game. You will be downed quite a lot, as Gorani pointed out. If the downed state is intended to basically get you back into the game again fast, why does the armor breaking system do the opposite? And the punishment is something you are not likely to avoid, as confident as you may feel about your level of skill. You never know when you might run into that Charr Shaman boss, or something equally likely to down you. So I don't consider the punishment avoidable at all. Everyone will have to fix their armor from time to time, and I can tell you, it will happen at moments when you don't want to zone to some outpost and get it fixed. It forces you to stop what you are doing and do something that is not fun. It is the wedge thrown in between you and your fun.

[Seven Ninety]

Your armour only breaks when you're defeated ("died"). So, what's the problem?

I die too much? xD I didn't notice it only happened when we die, my bad.

I still hope there will be a way of acquiring a repair kit or equivalent through playing and not paying though. If there already is, I missed it.

[Alaris]

right

a thing that has been in WoW since launch

but when it's in GW2 it's ~*~INNOVATION~*~

Well, I am one to be thankful that ANet is willing to steal from Blizzard what Blizzards has done right. Despite my qualms with WoW, that game did do a lot of things right, especially given when it released.

Zayren, I don't really disagree with you, but I think you're drastically over-estimating the general population. For some of us, death might be punishment enough, but plenty of people don't feel that way without a penalty. After all, that's the whole concept of zerging mobs in the first place. It's how they beat The Sleeper in EQ, who was supposed to be unkillable.

Agreed.

I disagree. (...) If the downed state is intended to basically get you back into the game again fast, why does the armor breaking system do the opposite?

I see the downed state as limbo, as a tipping point. You might come back to life, or you might die. Either way it's a warning that you need to improve with a chance that you can avoid the punishment.

As for not being able to avoid the punishment ever, well, yeah. But good players should be able to avoid it enough that it never becomes an issue. I for example never got broken pieces (damaged only) once I learned to play better. Fixing the armour when going to sell junk was enough.

And it shouldn't be a surprise if it's so predictable, you get 1 damage per death. Death might be unpredictable yes, but then the problem is with cheap random deaths rather than the punishment for it. imo