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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by harniq View Post
    Ooh pick me pick me

    - white sabertooth tiger mount, several months of dedicated grinding required
    - r14, a whole month of 14 hours per day required, skipping a day == starting over
    - orb of the darkmoon faire, which basically required a whole lot of money
    - epic mount, don't forget 900g was quite a lot back then
    - cap of the scarlet savent, only hat with 2% crit, requiring pristine hide of the beast at 1.2k if you were lucky amongst other extremely expensive components
    - the brick wall at 38-42, requiring mindless grind of feralas since no quests were available at that level
    - getting quintessential water from aszhara necessary to summon majordomo
    - crafting the ony amulet key
    - getting from IF, over BB to DM (or why DM never became popular despite good loot)
    - getting the tier 0.5 set
    - getting TuF and QS, pretty much required for starting tanks.
    - getting AR, best weapon for warriors pre-raid, and more or less required for raids

    I would hardly call these "many and small". "required and tough" is a better word. I'm not even talking raids here.
    Oh god yes... Don't remind me... Especially the PvP. Sure it's fun like... once... not for month after month ugh.

    But anyway. A lot of those could be done piecewise. Of course, that would make them take even longer, but that's not a problem - that brings in even more subscription money, enabling Blizzard to pump out more ads and more timesink content. You're right though that as you went up the levels, stuff took longer and longer. That was intended as well! Hook, wean, exploit, is the pattern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean here.

    New quests all the time sounds fun, but it would be a huge drain on the dev team. Randomly generated (e.g. Diablo series) is fun, but after a while it does not feel new, it feels randomly generated. Which is fine, randomly generated is fun sometimes, but sometimes I want an experience that feels like more than a throw of the dice. And reskinned anything (e.g. WoW) does not feel new at all. Again, reskinned is a fine way to produce content cheaply, I don't have a problem with it in games that are fun. Games find clever ways to reuse content. But if you see through the copy-paste, it does not feel new.

    If I have to pick my favorite kind of new, I would certainly pick a bit of each category, blended together. ANet is more heavy on scripts, Diablo on random, WoW on reskins. But each of those games use a bit of all the above.
    Diablo feels randomly generated because it is generated once and then fixed (for your character). The next time you see something similar but different. What I'm talking about is something where each part has 4-5 influences, and where parts can come and go dynamically... Instead of GW2 style the same thing repeating after 15 minutes, it might be a different thing doing what the old thing did because the old thing is dead. Or it might be that first thing doing something completely different.
    Last edited by Lady Rhonwyn; 19-06-2012 at 15:44. Reason: No double posting!

  2. #122
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    First, we have an edit function. If you want to add something extra to your post, edit it, instead of making a new post.

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    Diablo feels randomly generated because it is generated once and then fixed (for your character). The next time you see something similar but different. What I'm talking about is something where each part has 4-5 influences, and where parts can come and go dynamically... Instead of GW2 style the same thing repeating after 15 minutes, it might be a different thing doing what the old thing did because the old thing is dead. Or it might be that first thing doing something completely different.
    Yes, something like this would be awesome, but as I said before, I think it's not feasible, yet. At least not for the budgets companies have at this moment. You're talking about fuzzy logic here. The amount of variables you'll have to calculate will become so large, the game'll become prohibitively large. Where do you stop? You really will need an AI to take of that. And I'm not talking about the AI taking care of the NPC, but an AI to look over the entire area, that can take actions based upon a multitude of inputs.
    Lady Rhonwyn (sister of Danea, Katlinel, Gwendydd, and the rest)
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rhonwyn View Post
    First, we have an edit function. If you want to add something extra to your post, edit it, instead of making a new post.
    Eeeeeeeehyeah. I will do that. Sorryyyy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rhonwyn View Post
    Yes, something like this would be awesome, but as I said before, I think it's not feasible, yet. At least not for the budgets companies have at this moment. You're talking about fuzzy logic here. The amount of variables you'll have to calculate will become so large, the game'll become prohibitively large. Where do you stop? You really will need an AI to take of that. And I'm not talking about the AI taking care of the NPC, but an AI to look over the entire area, that can take actions based upon a multitude of inputs.
    Indeed, that's what I mean! An AI, or rather an AI system, stretching across the entire area. It would not be built explicitly, though - it would be put together by modular parts that fit together, so you could just add a Centaur AI, a Bandit AI, a City Watch AI, and so on... And they'd interact on their own, reacting to each other, and to players.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    Eeeeeeeehyeah. I will do that. Sorryyyy

    Indeed, that's what I mean! An AI, or rather an AI system, stretching across the entire area. It would not be built explicitly, though - it would be put together by modular parts that fit together, so you could just add a Centaur AI, a Bandit AI, a City Watch AI, and so on... And they'd interact on their own, reacting to each other, and to players.
    They should call it "Skynet," because it would be watching over the area (from the sky) while we play it on the Internet!

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyHarmon View Post
    They should call it "Skynet," because it would be watching over the area (from the sky) while we play it on the Internet!
    Damn it, you spotted my master plan... We were supposed to start in an MMO, then grow to take over the world.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    Damn it, you spotted my master plan... We were supposed to start in an MMO, then grow to take over the world.
    A logical (no pun intended) next step. It would be inherently anti-player, of course, since it would be in direct control of the enemy NPCs.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyHarmon View Post
    A logical (no pun intended) next step. It would be inherently anti-player, of course, since it would be in direct control of the enemy NPCs.
    At first, sure... Then it would develop into a virus that would take over the friendly NPCs as well.

    The virus that would infect the game client would appear at the same time as e-voting would become standard.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    At first, sure... Then it would develop into a virus that would take over the friendly NPCs as well.

    The virus that would infect the game client would appear at the same time as e-voting would become standard.
    I'm sure that would be coincidence.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    Damn it, you spotted my master plan... We were supposed to start in an MMO, then grow to take over the world.
    I work for an ISP, supporting business internet and site-to-site VPN.

    Couple nights ago, a customer's network went down and I had to call them. The response from their voicemail was:
    "You have reach the XLR57200 system. It is currently offline. Please leave a message."

    The machines. They have already taken over.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry jam View Post
    Eeeeeeeehyeah. I will do that. Sorryyyy

    Indeed, that's what I mean! An AI, or rather an AI system, stretching across the entire area. It would not be built explicitly, though - it would be put together by modular parts that fit together, so you could just add a Centaur AI, a Bandit AI, a City Watch AI, and so on... And they'd interact on their own, reacting to each other, and to players.
    The first MMO that will introduce this, and introduce this well, will be the WoW killer everybody has been talking about for ages. Because you're really going into a virtual reality then. GW2 has created the foundation, it only needs a different AI for the dynamic events and the possibility to remove and add factions so the DE's stay fresh (for exampe; centaurs have all been killed, a new faction arrives to fill the vacuum and every faction has its own strengths and weaknesses)
    Lady Rhonwyn (sister of Danea, Katlinel, Gwendydd, and the rest)
    Guild leader of GWOnline [GWO]
    "Kind of a big mouth", "People Know Me, whether they like it or not", "I'm very vocal", "I wrote many leather bound books", "My Guild Hall is the forum", "Goddess posting amongst mere mortals" (courtesy of Cardinal Cyn)

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