Beta PvE impressions. The feel of the game is... Very much like a generic MMO.

[birdfoot]

In GW 2 (at least what I've seen), you don't have to follow the path, you can do whatever you want. You can level up in PvP or WvWvW or skip your starter zone for another race's. You don't have to do your personal quest if you don't want. You can craft instead of fighting, you can explore vistas and all the points of interest.

I think that's probably what makes it feel different from other mmos, however, I neither really like or dislike it. I guess it's because I didn't really have an issue with classic mmo questing in the first place. Most other mmos have really boring quests, but I've found WoW's to be quite interesting and rewarding.

Nah, PvE is grindy. For some reason, they designed gameplay that would fit perfectly with not having leveling and unlocks, and then they coupled that with a setting where you have levels and slot unlocks.

I think I can understand what you mean. Yeah, it seems like it would have worked alot better if levels were removed altogether; the experience would just be focused on adventuring through the world.

We don't really know what the end is, though, that's what I think you should keep in mind. We haven't seen end game. And it will likely take a long time get there (as long as you aren't rushing through). And if you enough WvWvW, end game is constantly changing because it will depend on the group of players you are up against.

Actually, I thought in the back of my mind (during beta) that I'm gonna screw whatever that's installed for me at the end, seeing how boring the early part can already be; I couldn't see myself taking the toon past even level 30. That was essentially what happened when I tried out WoW TBC, I stopped playing after a few days trying to level a warrior because it was terribly boring. I did, however, went back and try the game again in WotLK, and found it much better after changes to their system. So you could be right there, things might change for the better as time goes by (hopefully).

[RD]

That second quote is def not from me lol

Anyway, it sounds like MMOs are not for you in general

[birdfoot]

That second quote is def not from me lol

Anyway, it sounds like MMOs are not for you in general

I'm terribly sorry about the 2nd one. :P

Well, I actually play mostly mmos nowadays but I'm looking for one that can do with a modest amount of time spent. I found WoW to be the most entertaining one so far but it's too time demanding now as I have my RL commitments. It's consoling to know that GW2 at least has good PvP which still interests and it can be joined very early on regardless of level (and gear remains accessible like in GW1), so I'm looking forward to that.

I'm actually quite fine with questing in other mmos, but there is a certain level of threshold when it comes to boredom. When I gave up on WoW first time round, it wasn't really to do with anything that ANet attempted to fix in other mmos. Rather, leveling a warrior was downright boring. I only started leveling a Warrior again until pre-cataclysm where they made huge changes to the skill system, and it was tons of fun. Vanilla WoW has class-specific quests and those can be quite interesting.

Anyway, I don't see how traditional questing is very different from GW2's renowned hearts and DEs; they are mostly all made up of kill/collect/escort/defned objectives, just presented in a different form. I must say though, ANet did the right thing to hide the numerical amount that was required to complete the objectives; it's a small change that made a huge difference.

[Смерть]

I think I can understand what you mean. Yeah, it seems like it would have worked alot better if levels were removed altogether; the experience would just be focused on adventuring through the world.

Wow -- yeah, just how one goes around the world doing stuff so far, I agree in the no levels notion. With how peeps level down anyways, could work -- totally give a different game play impression.

If levels where taken out of the game as is, I think off the top of my head, things that would need a work around would be a different notification system to what is harder and easier to do in-game, and armor and weapons as one goes through the game. Armor skins would be a big factor in distinguishing newer players from older players as well.

edit: on second thought, I could see this working, but think the game needs a lot more goal oriented supports without giving up leveling, a big one itself.

[nkuvu]

I like the "no level" idea in theory, but I can see a few snags. Armor and enemy level, as mentioned already.

Also distribution of particular features. "Traits unlocked at level 11" ...changes to "traits unlocked some undetermined amount of time later. Don't worry, we'll tell you." Exaggerated, clearly, but giving a numerical level does give the player of some sense of time to completion.

If there are no levels, when do you hand out skill points? Or unlock weapon switching?

None of this is totally unworkable, but somewhat thorny. And that's not touching on the whole player reaction. Many people criticized the first Guild Wars for only having 20 levels. Given how firmly entrenched levels are in the MMORPG mindset, I think it may be a tough sell. Having said that, however, I will also admit that GW2 isn't afraid to meander away from the norm (see: lack of quest log).

[RabidCoqui]

Regarding unlocks and no levels, there wouldn't be unlocks... you start knowing all skills.

[sorudo]

what about making XP like gold but then for skills and stat points, makes the whole lvl issue go away.
traits should be accessible from point one anyway or at least lvl 5 so they could make it so that you can get traits after you used at least an X amount of stat points.
enemies can be solved by having a thread meter in your hud, the stronger it is compare to you the higher it will go to red.

i have bin designing games around the idea of no levels, i could make it really widespread but it would completely change the game it self.
the solving part is more in the idea of no levels, i rather have levels in this game to keep things simple.

[birdfoot]

Erm... Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not actually suggesting a no levels idea (be it good or bad), pretty sure there are many who need to see levels for progression. I was just concurring with raspberry's comment that the design of GW2's PvE more suitable if the design didn't have levels at all.

So don't read too much into it.

Side topic: I really missed Ultima 6.

[Смерть]

what about making XP like gold but then for skills and stat points, makes the whole lvl issue go away.
traits should be accessible from point one anyway or at least lvl 5 so they could make it so that you can get traits after you used at least an X amount of stat points.
enemies can be solved by having a thread meter in your hud, the stronger it is compare to you the higher it will go to red.

i have bin designing games around the idea of no levels, i could make it really widespread but it would completely change the game it self.
the solving part is more in the idea of no levels, i rather have levels in this game to keep things simple.

Wonder how well the unlocking skills mechanic could be done up in replacing leveling. For example, unusable armor and weapons are shaded out, that you cannot use them (being higher level); but the more powerful you get, you finally see a set of armor you want, and its at around 75 percent unshaded - just 25% more to go. Wouldn't really be a sure way of gauging how much play you would exactly need to get stuff I guess -- in that sense, might as well just have levels.

[nkuvu]

Erm... Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not actually suggesting a no levels idea (be it good or bad), pretty sure there are many who need to see levels for progression. I was just concurring with raspberry's comment that the design of GW2's PvE more suitable if the design didn't have levels at all.

So don't read too much into it.

Side topic: I really missed Ultima 6.

Shh, we have a month until actual release date, let us speculate randomly about stuff.