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03-05-2012, 14:51 #21Lady Rhonwyn (sister of Danea, Katlinel, Gwendydd, and the rest)
Guild leader of GWOnline [GWO]
"Kind of a big mouth", "People Know Me, whether they like it or not", "I'm very vocal", "I wrote many leather bound books", "My Guild Hall is the forum", "Goddess posting amongst mere mortals" (courtesy of Cardinal Cyn)
03-05-2012, 15:18 #22
But on a more serious note, I'm aware that the areas still need some tweaking, I was simply pointing out that you can't just wander around aimlessly as some posters claim, you are still following a rather strict line (area vs leveling curve).
03-05-2012, 15:44 #23
GWOnline Site Pal Achievements:
- The Order of Dii [Dii]
When critiquing GW2, at least get your facts straight. It makes you sound prejudiced otherwise.
1) Most content can be done solo or not. Most solo content involves NPC allies even if you solo.
2) Personal story often involves groups attacking you rather than solo foes. In fact, 1vs1 is very rare.
3) Hearts offer choice in how you contribute, so do many dynamic events.
WoW bashing on my part is based on:
1) Combat is boring:
1-1) No dodge, no reason to move while casting except for rare exceptions.
1-2) Lack of cooperation outside teaming (due to kill steal, resource steal, etc)
1-3) Trinity or GTFO
1-4) Rotation, it's combat made boring.
2) Quests are boring
2-1) Quests have only one way in which you can complete them.
2-2) Static persistent areas, which for me is less about whether the area changes, and more about mobs just standing there waiting for you to attack
2-3) Outside of quests, there really isn't much you could do to level up. (Dungeon finder is a new addition)
2-4) With quest chains, you can't skip quests. You have to kill 10 rats and collect dust if you want to kill the rat king.
3) The game is grindy as hell, which is OK except that
3-1) Endgame =/= the game, therefore you want to get to endgame
3-2) Wastes time with lack of map travel, and so much required traveling
3-3) The game is boring (see 1 & 2)
I think GW2 differs a lot on those aspects. Even if you factor in that some items are subjective or opinion-based, I think I have very valid personal reasons to not invest 15$ in a WoW sub and spend a lot on GW2 instead.
03-05-2012, 17:03 #24
This video is the best example of how the heart quests can be so ANTI-grind. Just watch the first half really...
They are fighting stuff, fall in a hole, continue killing stuff, and next thing they know, their renown heart is finished. They even comment on it. They were just simply fighting their way out (with or without the girl), and completed the heart without realizing it.
Yes, the idea of the hearts scattered about are all basically the same. But they only become grind if you MAKE them grind. Another one that I found kinda fun was the orchard in Queensdale. You kill spiders and a do a few other things. However, sometimes, the one guy starts asking for apples. Now, some spiders "drop" apples, and some trees will drop apples when you attack them. However, some of the trees drop higher leveled spiders. If you kill them, they will "drop" an apple AND count towards the renown heart.
It's not like the hearts are as simple as go kill x, fix y, and prevent z. Some dynamic events in the same area will contribute to the heart. Sure, you could kill x, fix y, and/or prevent z, or you could partake in the DE, finishing both the DE and the heart.
I see GW2 as a game that enables you to make it as grindy as you want it to be. You don't want grind? Multitask as much as possible. You want to grind like you've never grinded (ground?) before? Go ahead, stick to doing only one of killing x, fixing y, or preventing z.
03-05-2012, 18:59 #25
Complete failure, restart current section of the storyline? Harsh, for a game that wants to be casual-friendly.
A secondary "failure" success option? Preferably, but much more work, unless you merely give it lip service (as in, put in an extra sentence - I think SWTOR does this to simulate choice in your responses).
04-05-2012, 04:47 #26
The problem isn't that you can get through them by grinding gold - the problem is that they aren't as engaging GW1 missions - one of the reasons as for why, is that you can't fail them. Fairly generic mobs is the other.
Actually, come to think of it, optional, bonus objectives that are possible to fail would do a world of good for them. (Think GW1 bonus objectives. Now, imagine if going for the bonus still had a risk of failing the bonus, but wouldn't wipe your party.)
On the subject of renown hearts - here's a few things to point out:
And I'd like to point out that renown hearts are far from optional. I was participating in every world event that I could, keeping up with the personal story, and clearing every renown heart - only to find myself consistently two levels behind. Leveling without them is really not an option.
Either way, the problem is not that they exist, or solely that that one differs little from another. The problem, is that the combat aspect of them is... Quite bland. Mostly due to lack of enemy variety.
To Arena.net's credit, the player character's side of combat is done well. The punching bags we're laying into are not nearly as interesting - and after you've wailed away at a few hundred of them, it shows.
At the end of the day, I can't really see myself recommending the game to anyone who finds the MMO formula of "Hit 1-9 in sequence to kill a few thousand bland enemies with progressively bigger numbers next to their names." As is, the game's PvE is aiming to be "WoW/Kotor/Rift/Tera without monthly fees."
On a bright side, the skill point mini-quests work fairly well. As does the out-of-combat regen.
Last edited by MasterNightfall; 04-05-2012 at 05:11.
04-05-2012, 06:55 #27
I love how there is actually people on these forums that agree with you. On the beta forms people would be in denial. Their love for this game ifs fueled by their hate for WOW. Any comparison to it will start a flame war. I agree with you but i already payed for this and I'm tired of WOW. It was a great game for most of the 4 years that I played it and i don't inexplicably hate it just cause Arena Net tells me to. In the end i just can't help but feel that this game has greatness buried down deep somewhere and maybe its a bit early to judge. For all I know it could still be 6 months from release.
04-05-2012, 07:19 #28
- Tarnished Coast
- The Order of Dii [Dii], Do Not Revive Asura [Ever], When Zergs Collide [CERN]
Just to be clear, I LOVE how they are automatic--no talking to an NPC to start the heart quests--and that you get rewards mailed to you afterwards. They are not enganging though--to each their own really though, some people like it--I just think that PvE in open world would be more rounded if the heart quests were more "quest-like" as in GW1--they are pretty much tasks/chores if you will rather than quests.
Kind of off-topic, but I got out from under a rock and watched the WoW fight of the dragon from Cataclysm--holy ****, it was awesome--that dragon is HUGE (fighting on his spine while he flies). Looking forward to what ANet has up their sleeve for their dragon battle.
04-05-2012, 09:36 #29
That's very generous of you. I have already explained why I don't see the hearts quests as the innovation you claim they are, as for the rest, there is really no need to jump to conclusions.
Thankfully, vanilla WoW is how many years old? MMO's have evolved, SW:TOR is a good example. Logically, GW2 uses modern standards. I wouldn't have expected anything else.
Actually, diving with snorkel and trying to breath would result in swallowing plenty of water (I'm diving, so I couldn't resist ).
Joking aside, I'm just shoehorning different types of breathing into grind just like you try to shoehorn different options within hearts into "mindlessly doing the same over and over" which it just isn't. Breathing isn't a chore, neither are hearts. If either is a chore, you're seriously doing something wrong.
04-05-2012, 09:41 #30