4. No expensive items.
5. No titles or tasks (daily/monthly/otherwise).
If obsidian armor didn't exist, I know that a lot of people wouldn't have spent as much time farming. They just wouldn't have ended up playing as much. I am talking about optional grind here of course, many people will give it a pass because it doesn't give any benefit that you have that armor. It still causes people to grind though, and it gives players that don't have as much time to play as they want, an excuse to partake in cheating, scamming or even in rmt.
That's not to say that economies with expensive non-game changing items are flawed, just that there are people who have problems because they'll play a game that they do not enjoy, or even loath... if it has a task they feel they must do for whatever reason. There was this one person in my alliance once that cursed out anet every chance they got because of... I think it was one of the vanquishing titles? They'd tell everyone that they were going to get gwamm before they stopped playing "this horrible game", but that anet was evil because they designed the titles to be too grindy. It didn't matter to them that it was optional grind, don't ask me why. I mean, I think I know why, but I'd rather not talk more about that particular person. Like I said, some people have problems.
What it comes down to for me is this: Is it possible to complete hearts without doing one or more of the actions that is requested? Not because that would keep it from being grindy, but it would make at least one of the actions as an optional grind. I didn't play enough to feel comfortable answering this one way or the other myself.
At least pvp players don't have to worry about pve grind, and pvers don't have to worry about pvp grind. Though from my time in warhammer online, I'm aware that there will be issues, at least at first, with people who will grind pve when all they really want to do is go play some WvW. At minimum they'll grind their weapon skills so they aren't reduced to spamming "1" against players who have a full skill bar, but somethings telling me some will avoid WvW completely until they've hit level 30, because they'll want to be able to have an elite available when their opponent uses theirs. And well, max level armor will keep a few people out of WvW on anything but their best equipped characters.
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27-05-2012, 05:34 #31
27-05-2012, 12:25 #32
IMO the hearts are not grindy, if you think it's grindy then you simply don't enjoy the task at hand.
the only single part where i say the game is grindy is because the weapon swap is to high in the levels, lower that to lvl 5 or even 3 and the grind is (for me at least) gone.
27-05-2012, 13:06 #33
27-05-2012, 15:23 #34
28-05-2012, 15:35 #35
Yeah maybe you should have played past the starter area.
Anyways, I'm happy I could comfortably level to 15 without feeling like ripping my face off. That gives me hope, unlike most other mmo games I played to 5 before logging out permanently.
I'm quite confident that I have played the beta and its heart quests at length, so far nothing in this thread has convinced me you did anything close to it. Even the majority of replies here suggest that these events are similar to quests and have a touch of grind to them, I'm still waiting for a proper explanation past wiki-quoting to warrant your claims in the OP.
Consider accepting that you simply don't have the time available to play a MMO.
The reason why I love(d) GW1 immensely is because I could make the most out of the few hours (if at all) I had available to play each day, thanks to instances and heroes/henchmen. This is why I choose it over WoW or something like that, I could never free up the time to do endgame content there.
I think it's quite unreasonable to ask for MMO's to fit any very casual gamer type who can squeeze in an hour or two a day at max. There is stuff like handy games for you.
Take any failed mmo in the last 10 years. They failed because the casual segment was alienated. Any reason usually boils down to the fact that working people can't justify 15 euros a month for a grinder. Props to a.net for realizing that it is exactly this market segment which can make any game succeed.
This goes pretty much for any kind of hobby. If you can't spare the time required for it, just don't bother. It's still a great hobby for people who can.
Last edited by harniq; 28-05-2012 at 15:38.
28-05-2012, 15:47 #36
On the contrary. I believe video games should center around people who have a job and an active social life. These people own 100% of the money in the world. That is no typo. If this segment of the market is alienated, videogames by default will disappear because you need to get the money where it is. Basing your game on students and jobless people doesn't pay the bills for a project as big as many mmo's. The different CoD and Fifa games are for the most part working people who play an hour after work. They and only they have the money to keep buying skins, map packs and other stuff.
28-05-2012, 16:16 #37
GWOnline Site Pal Achievements:
- The Order of Dii [Dii]
28-05-2012, 17:50 #38
if i can buy guild wars ones and never have to pay anymore while still having a better game experience then it's only logical to look the other way and kiss WoW goodbye, B2P still wins the field VS P2P.
also, i don't like grind at all and WoW is pretty much the mother of all grind, i don't pay to play grind, i pay to play a game.
28-05-2012, 17:56 #39
GWOnline Site Pal Achievements:
- The Order of Dii [Dii]
So clearly there are still people willing to dish out 15$ for a grindy game. Granted, a big proportion probably is due to social networking, another smaller proportion to endgame content...
I don't mind a game where I can invest time, in fact I looked to MMORPGs looking for one. And I would gladly pay 15$ a month for a game worth the cost. The reason I didn't was because GW offered better quality gaming at a lower cost. It had little to nothing to do with grind though.
28-05-2012, 21:43 #40